Favorite 5th gen system

[Michael Helgeson]

I didnt refer to Snes and Genesis graphics in general being ugly,thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case. For THEIR time these systems produced some very excellent 2d titles. However what I did do was knock out the "shining examples" you gave as excellent titles to show why you think the Jag and 32X were 16-bitish.  The games you gave as a example are infact poor examples of what either the Genesis or Snes could do or were games that shouldnt have been attempted because the results were poor. I also didnt expect the Genesis or Snes to do complexe flat or texture mapped polygon based games well.

For that matter its silly for you to have suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically when both are at thier best and say both of them are 16-bittish,just as the titles you gave examples of are poor choices of compairing Snes and Genesis might with the Jaguar.

Great examples of Snes and Genesis 16-bit might visually and play wise would be Shinobi 3,Gunstar Heroes,Alien Soldier,Phantasy Star 4, Sonic 3,Streets of Rage 2-3 Castlevania Bloodlines,Splatterhouse 2-3,Contra 3,Super Castlevania 4,R-Type 3,Dracula X, Power Instinct, Fatal Fury Special,Killer Instinct,Crono Trigger and Mega Man X 3. All of these titles were graphically on top of their game,and the play was just as well. While I wont use these to compair graphics against the 32X and Jaguar,as thats unfair because of the years apart in hardware design, I will say this.

If you want a direct comparason of what each system can do on the same title then look at these games.
Mortal Kombat 2 for Snes versus 32X
NBA Jam TE for Snes/Jaguar/32X.
Raiden for Snes/Genesis/Jaguar.
Flashback for Genesis/Snes/Jaguar.
Doom for Jag/32X/Snes
Wolfenstien 3d for Snes/Jag.
Wrestlemania the Arcade Game for Snes/Genesis/32X.
 There are others,but I mean if you really want to run head to head comparasons this is the way to do it,and you will see in doing so the Jag and 32X did it better.

[Black Tiger]

I didnt refer to Snes and Genesis graphics in general being ugly,thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case. For THEIR time these systems produced some very excellent 2d titles. However what I did do was knock out the "shining examples" you gave as excellent titles to show why you think the Jag and 32X were 16-bitish.  The games you gave as a example are infact poor examples of what either the Genesis or Snes could do or were games that shouldnt have been attempted because the results were poor. I also didnt expect the Genesis or Snes to do complexe flat or texture mapped polygon based games well.

For that matter its silly for you to have suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically when both are at thier best and say both of them are 16-bittish,just as the titles you gave examples of are poor choices of compairing Snes and Genesis might with the Jaguar.

Great examples of Snes and Genesis 16-bit might visually and play wise would be Shinobi 3,Gunstar Heroes,Alien Soldier,Phantasy Star 4, Sonic 3,Streets of Rage 2-3 Castlevania Bloodlines,Splatterhouse 2-3,Contra 3,Super Castlevania 4,R-Type 3,Dracula X, Power Instinct, Fatal Fury Special,Killer Instinct,Crono Trigger and Mega Man X 3. All of these titles were graphically on top of their game,and the play was just as well. While I wont use these to compair graphics against the 32X and Jaguar,as thats unfair because of the years apart in hardware design, I will say this.

If you want a direct comparason of what each system can do on the same title then look at these games.
Mortal Kombat 2 for Snes versus 32X
NBA Jam TE for Snes/Jaguar/32X.
Raiden for Snes/Genesis/Jaguar.
Flashback for Genesis/Snes/Jaguar.
Doom for Jag/32X/Snes
Wolfenstien 3d for Snes/Jag.
Wrestlemania the Arcade Game for Snes/Genesis/32X.
 There are others,but I mean if you really want to run head to head comparasons this is the way to do it,and you will see in doing so the Jag and 32X did it better.

I never said that you called SNES/Genesis graphics in general ugly, just the comparisons you made. But SF Alpha SNES looks great in general, let alone as a SNES game.

I know that those games weren't good examples of what the systems could do. The point was that just as you said, a lot of the Jag games were in the realm of 16-bit, but there were those exeptions where some primitive 3D was acheived.

Same with the SNES & Genesis, they managed some basic 3D. But when people generally talk about the 32-bit generation, they're refering to Saturn/PSX and the Jag and 32-X are closer to the Genesis/SNES.

I never suggested that the Snes could compete hand in hand with the 32X or Jaguar graphically, when both are at thier best or otherwise. Thats your asumption of what I was thinking and is not the case.

But its silly for anyone to think that the Jaguar & 32-X can compete hand in hand with the Saturn & PSX graphically.

Not only did the Jag & 32-X do games like Doom better, but 32-X is my favorite version of the game, followed by the Jag version. I played both to death back in the day.

[torgo]

I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.

[FM-77]

This is why I'm glad we've finally escaped the bit generations.

Dude, the 256 bit generation is just getting started!

[Michael Helgeson]

From Black_Tiger

You even called the SNES/Genesis games ugly and other negative stuff, compared to the nice Jag & 32-X games. Does that mean that you think that the Saturn/PSX make the Jag/32-X games look ugly? Personally, I like them all and don't feel that the PS3 ruins them.

What I always wanted out of 32-bit consoles, besides ranging from flat shaded polys to textured, shaded, lighted 3D games, was more 'high-res' high color games like the later Guilty Gear's.

Well your either saying I did or I didnt,your pretty vague there. As for Guilty Gear,it didnt get high res good looking untill it was blessed with Naomi/Dreamcast,in other words, 128-bit Power VR2,not 32-bit graphics chips. Theres a big difference between Guilty Gear PS1 and Guilty Gear X on up.

[Michael Helgeson]

I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.

Agreed,32X Doom was good,but the Jaguar was alot better.

[GUTS]

I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.

It's the difference between playing games with a real controller or half a phone. I'll take the 32x version and a real controller please.

[Black Tiger]

I'm QUITE surprised that anyone would like the 32X version of anything (especially Doom) over the Jaguar version.

It's the difference between playing games with a real controller or half a phone. I'll take the 32x version and a real controller please.

Thats why the 32X Doom is my favorite. It was my first Doom and I prefer playing on a pad with a single strafe button. I still didn't have any problem playing with the giant Jaguar pad, but the 32X version is my favorite because of nostalgia/personal bias.

On a technical level, the Jaguar is way better. Probably the most impressive version I've seen for a particular console other than maybe the GBA version. But the Jaguar version gets extra points for me for being so good so early on, where as I expected more from the PSX version.

I was actually glad that the Jaguar version had no music, because I played my own through my stereo with my TV cranked to hear the sfx. I played that version to death at a time when I was first discovering what would become some of my favorite bands and one album in particular is permanently etched in my mind and reminds me of Jag Doom everytime I listen to it.

Well your either saying I did or I didnt,your pretty vague there. As for Guilty Gear,it didnt get high res good looking untill it was blessed with Naomi/Dreamcast,in other words, 128-bit Power VR2,not 32-bit graphics chips. Theres a big difference between Guilty Gear PS1 and Guilty Gear X on up

Thats why I just said the "later" GG, because I don't remember how many versions/sequals there are. All I know is that the Dreamcast GG(X?) is one of the most visually impressive games I've ever seen. I almost bought the Xbox version tonight, but opted for a Wii points card instead.

[muse hunter]

the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era.  For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten.  Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned.  For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better.  And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly.  Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.

[Michael Helgeson]

the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era.  For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten.  Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned.  For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better.  And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly.  Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.

If the N64 totally blew you away then you have problems.

[muse hunter]

the 32/64 bit era was a great time, everything seemed possible and it was clear videogames were entering a new era.  For me the likes of the cdi, jaguar, 32X, mega cd, 3DO, FX, amiga cd etc are better of forgotten.  Too many tried to jump on the 3D bandwagon with their 32bit pretenders but fell right off, thank god consumers couldn't really give a damn about them otherwise the industry could have got its fingers burned.  For me the era started with the ps1 and saturn, both are quality consoles, i can't really decide which is better.  And the N64 when it first came out toally blew me away, although today i find its aged pretty badly.  Anyways i loved that generation just for Nights, i love that game.

If the N64 totally blew you away then you have problems.

come on, i don't believe theres been a better videogame experience then playing mario 64 for the first time, the N64 was quality - goldeneye, smash bros, mario tennis, perfect dark, f zero x, zelda.  Sure the console was horribly undersupported and most thrid party games were a bit p!ss, but both Nintendo and RARE were on top of their game during the N64 years and thats what made the console great for me. 

[Black Tiger]

The only N64 game I ever really got into besides Shadowman(which I own on all platforms) is Mario 64. Doom 64 was fun enough once through and I should give it a try again, but I never found any other N64 games for me other than Mario.

[Keranu]

N64 is one of those consoles that's better than what I used to imagine. At one point I would think of it as a pretty crap console but when I look back at some of the games for it, there were a surprising amount of decent games, especially when it comes to 3D platformers and multiplayer. I wish the games were as cheap as Genesis or NES games.

[FM-77]

Nintendo 64 rules. One of the most important systems to ever grace the video game industry. So many groundbreaking titles. 

[Michael Helgeson]

Ive never in my life,esp working at a game store come across soemone who was "blown away" by the N64.
Not saying it had all bad titles, I liked Mace Dark Ages,Bio Freaks, Top Gear Overdrive,KI2,SW Rouge Squadron,but honestly never found anything that blew me away,and all the FPS except Doom64 and Quake 2 had horrible framerates that overclocking barely even fixes. I have a N64 here in my room,but its never used. I look at it,then look at any number of other systems Id rather play like my NeoGeo or TG or Genesis that had better quality games,and I play those instead. Ill give the N64 this though,Sin and Punishment looks really nice. My friend has it and I watched him beat it. Its really well done.