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Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: guyjin on April 11, 2007, 05:18:59 PM
Title: Sega's best console
Post by: guyjin on April 11, 2007, 05:18:59 PM
Which is the greatest of them all?
* by choosing this option I hereby forefit my life and all belongings; I declare myself "fair game" as the scientologists would say.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Turbo D on April 11, 2007, 05:40:46 PM
It has to be the genesis, my personal favorite of the sega family. especially if equiped with either or sega cd and 32x. Man those 32x games are flipping awesome, its like the supergrafx of sega systems, :D.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 11, 2007, 06:11:46 PM
I think we've had one of these polls before, but a new one won't hurt.
Genesis is without-a-doubt the best, but I voted Pico just to give it some love. Speaking of which, who was the other person to vote for the Pico??
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Turbo D on April 11, 2007, 07:08:59 PM
dude, i bought a pico at a thrift store for 4 bucks and it was pretty cool. It came with some gay winnie the pooh game, :lol:.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: TR0N on April 11, 2007, 07:41:23 PM
Saturn follow by the DC.
Not putting down the, Genesis though i got alot of entertainment out of it when i owned one.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Michael Helgeson on April 11, 2007, 07:48:44 PM
Saturn for me first. Genesis second,Sega CD,Dreamcast, and 32X tied for 4th,Master System 5th,and Pico never existed to me.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 11, 2007, 11:59:23 PM
Easy choice. Mega Drive.
I'll make a list too.
1. Mega Drive (great) 2. Saturn (good) 3. Master System (decent) 4. Game Gear (decent) 5. Mega-CD (decent) 6. Dreamcast (bad) 7. 32X (junk)
Never used the other systems and I never will.
The Mega Drive is one of my favorite consoles. It is only surpassed by the SNES and the PS2 which has infinite amounts of perfect games. Anyway, there are tons of great games for the Mega Drive. Soleil (Crusader of Centy), Light Crusader, Landstalker, Phantasy Star 2-3 (never played #4), Traysia, Wonder Boy in Monster World, etc. The list is can be made very long.
The Saturn has a pretty solid library as well. Magic Knight Rayearth (one of my absolute favorites), Shining the Holy Ark, Shining Wisdom, Linkle Liver Story, etc.
The Master System has a handful of really good games, like Golden Axe Warrior, Golvellius and Wonder Boy III The Dragon's Trap.
The Game Gear is a really interesting system. It really is a shame that it is a portable. Those games would've been a lot more enjoyable on a TV. The Madoh Monogatari series, Lunar Walking School, Magic Knight Rayearth, etc. Many interesting titles.
Mega-CD is a pretty weak system, but features some good titles as well, but nothing really stands out to me. It has a bunch of "OK" titles, like the Lunar games, Popful Mail and my personal favorite: Dungeon Explorer (which is not just okay, but great!).
I don't understand the Dreamcast hype. When it was new, nobody cared except a select few. Those that DID care hated it, and it died almost immediately. Now, many long years after its death, people are loving it for some reason. I've never liked it, weak 3d is not my thing. There are only a handful of games that interest me for it (Climax Landers, Grandia 2, etc). PS2 was the first console that could properly handle 3d, and it did it well.
The 32X is junk. That's all I can say.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Turbo D on April 12, 2007, 12:12:03 AM
I think dreamcast was fairly revolutionary. It had an awesome controller, with triggers i might add. It also came with a built in modem, thats pretty bad ass. It was compatible with windows me and could boot up homebrew apps without modding. That means you can play your emulators on ur dreamcast, cool. :D
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 12, 2007, 12:20:49 AM
So the Dreamcast introduced the trigger buttons? Now I know who to blame. I thought the trigger buttons on the GC controller really ruined it. Standard L/R buttons would've been better, now you have to push them down so deep. I know you don't usually need to push them all the way down, but if I don't - it feels like it didn't register, so I have to push them all the way down every time. Obsessive compulsive behaviour I guess. :P
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Turbo D on April 12, 2007, 12:25:25 AM
lol, I actually feel that way too on some games :lol:. I guess they're only good for racing games as a throttle.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Necromancer on April 12, 2007, 04:44:42 AM
1st - Terradrive 2nd - Genesis 3rd - Saturn
How could you leave out the sexy Sega Terradrive? All the goodness of a Mega Drive, plus the awesome power of a 286 and a development kit. I don't understand why it wasn't more popular. I mean, who wouldn't want a brand new computer using a ten year old processor with the added power of Blast Processing. I know that x86 code would only use the 286, but the proximity to Blast Processing had to have raised the 286 to near Pentium Pro levels of performance. :^o
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 12, 2007, 02:51:21 PM
My favs in order:
Master System Genesis Saturn Dreamcast Sg-_000
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: termis on April 12, 2007, 02:54:28 PM
All good from SMS to Dreamcast. Too difficult to pick a favorite.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: GUTS on April 12, 2007, 04:26:38 PM
The Dreamcast gets a lot of hype because it's an awesome system with tons of great games, just like every Sega system (except the 32x of course).
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 12, 2007, 04:35:05 PM
The 32X is definitely comparable to the SuperGrafx, just with (much) more power and (many) more games. Otherwise they are both just as equally useless.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: gundarN on April 12, 2007, 07:14:07 PM
I think the Mega Drive is a better "retro" console than the SNES; but the Saturn is cooler. I do like an underdog.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 14, 2007, 10:51:12 AM
I can't choose, I like them all.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: ccovell on April 15, 2007, 12:00:02 AM
For the time (1988/1989) the MD/Genesis was the closest thing to having an arcade in your home as a console. Barring the low colour count, it was really powerful.
DC was quite impressive (great hardware), Saturn was disappointing (so-so hardware but great games). But the Genesis was the only Sega system to have a strong run and a pretty decent lifespan.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 16, 2007, 06:18:51 AM
bitter sweet memories of Sega consoles but these are my favourites :
Saturn (mostly beaause a lot of games on there especially the import scene has some timeless classics) and I would consider the saturn as a successor to the pc engine.
followed by Dreamcast (mostly because of jet set radio (jet grind) Soul Calibur, Shenmue and Phantasy Star Online
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: nodtveidt on April 16, 2007, 05:18:44 PM
Gotta go with the Genesis, largest number of games I wanted so it was an easy pick. :D
PLEASE do yourself the favor and play PS4. Out of all the PS games, it's most similar to PS2, right down to the "when is this story gonna end?" style of storytelling.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: termis on April 16, 2007, 07:08:55 PM
PLEASE do yourself the favor and play PS4. Out of all the PS games, it's most similar to PS2, right down to the "when is this story gonna end?" style of storytelling.
Yeah, Phantasy Star IV was really good. The only minus for that game was that it was just way too easy compared to the prequels. Earlier PSs had some BRUTAL dungeons (especially II) and it took awhile to finish those, but I blasted through PS4 in a just a few days... But as we're all adults now and may not have tons of time to put in a game anymore, that might not be such a bad thing anymore. :-k
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 17, 2007, 12:33:46 AM
I've been meaning to get PS4 for over ten years, but it has yet to happen. I'm not sure why. Please sell it to me. :P
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 17, 2007, 02:21:27 AM
Phantasy Star IV is excellent! I think PSIII was the worst in the series...
I just wished that sega usa released the Phantasy star collection for sega saturn in the usa which would have been a good chance to see it released in the UK.. (Saturn PS collection featured all the phantasy star games (including the sega Mark III version of ps1, beastiary and japanese tv commercials)... >.>
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 17, 2007, 02:56:17 AM
Phantasy Star III is my favorite... It's not anime-ish like almost all the other japanese RPGs, which is a very good thing in my opinion. I absolutely LOVE the monster artwork in PS III. The music is great too, and the plot. I think everything about that game is excellent.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: runinruder on April 17, 2007, 03:29:24 AM
I liked 3 well enough, but 2 is my favorite. I loved those huge, difficult dungeons.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 17, 2007, 03:43:19 AM
What about Shining Force 2?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 17, 2007, 04:31:43 AM
Only played Shining Force 1... which is the only strategy rpg I've played and enjoyed.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 17, 2007, 07:03:41 AM
a Very good strategy RPG that should keep you gripped till the end.. the first one was alright too (which both have been remade for the GBA) and so was Shining in the Darkness again on Genesis/megadrive
Shining force III came out on the saturn and was released on 3 seperate discs to accomodate the huuuuge story but only the first part got translated and released in the west..
The sequel-ish to Shining in the Darkness was Shining in the Holy Ark again for the sega saturn... which although I thought was a very good game it had some ugly rendered monsters..
see a vid here:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: _joshuaTurbo on April 17, 2007, 09:38:54 AM
Saturn.
It was the TG16 of the 32/64 era.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 17, 2007, 09:58:55 AM
Shining the Holy Ark rules. One of my favorites for the Saturn. Ugly enemies and other characters, though.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Hobo Xiphas on April 17, 2007, 11:46:09 AM
Shining force III came out on the saturn and was released on 3 seperate discs to accomodate the huuuuge story but only the first part got translated and released in the west..
There is an English script for Scenario 2, and part of Scenario 3 that fit the game when I played them. I don't know if they are accurate.
I heard awhile back that someone was going to try to insert them into the game, but that it was a major pain in the ass to do.
It really is a shame that Scenario 2 wasn't released in the US, it has some real awesome battles in it.
Shining the Holy Ark rules. One of my favorites for the Saturn. Ugly enemies and other characters, though.
The best thing about Holy Ark is the hilarious different pitches for the text beeps. I love how the chicks have the really high pitched BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP while the dragonman in the game had a beefy BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP-BOOP.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 17, 2007, 12:03:49 PM
Text beeps are way better than voice overs. :wink:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: GUTS on April 18, 2007, 09:03:50 AM
Supposedly things are going smoothly on the text insertion in SF3 2&3. The problem they had I think was that some super a$$hole who worked on parts of the original translation wouldn't let the hackers use his/her parts, so they had to retranslate some stuff. Plus there were parts missing here and there from scenario 2 and 3 that had to be translated also. They did completely translate the premium disc a while back so it seems like they know what they are doing.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 18, 2007, 09:22:55 AM
Was it the same guy who worked on the Mother 3 "translation"? I believe he was called Shimarisu.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 18, 2007, 01:55:41 PM
Phantasy Star III is my favorite... It's not anime-ish like almost all the other japanese RPGs, which is a very good thing in my opinion. I absolutely LOVE the monster artwork in PS III. The music is great too, and the plot. I think everything about that game is excellent.
PSIII is a lot better than PSII. The monster artwork is the best next to PS1.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 18, 2007, 07:18:53 PM
PS1 was a hell of a lot more animated than PS3. In PS3 they maybe wiggle a finger or twitch their ears as they are attacking. I still greatly enjoyed the game as I played through all 4 about a year or so ago (on real hardware). Love that series. PSO and PSU do not count as real Phantasy Star games... or as real games.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 19, 2007, 02:36:49 AM
Was it the same guy who worked on the Mother 3 "translation"? I believe he was called Shimarisu.
Tell me more about this 'translation'. I've been threatening to pick the game up.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 19, 2007, 06:03:50 AM
It was a "translation" made by someone who sucks at translating (try the first Ys 4 SFC translation from 2001 for an example of his terrible work - not to be confused with Deuce's recent and excellent translation of the same). He was extremely rude to everybody and acted all arrogant and superior because he was "translating" it (the typical I rule because I'm the biggest geek kind of arrogance). Well, people got pissed at him so he dropped it altogether. His almost equally arrogant friends are still saying they're working on it, even though it's obviously just a lie. I don't really know much, as I don't care about either Mother 3 or the "translation", I've only heard this from people who do care.
I believe there's another translation project for it though, held by more professional people. I believe their translator is called Tomato, famous for some FF or SD translation. Don't really remember.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 19, 2007, 10:30:51 AM
I believe there's another translation project for it though, held by more professional people. I believe their translator is called Tomato, famous for some FF or SD translation. Don't really remember.
Tomato is famous because of Bahamut Lagoon's translation, I believe...
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: guyjin on April 19, 2007, 12:34:07 PM
It was a "translation" made by someone who sucks at translating (try the first Ys 4 SFC translation from 2001 for an example of his terrible work - not to be confused with Deuce's recent and excellent translation of the same). He was extremely rude to everybody and acted all arrogant and superior because he was "translating" it (the typical I rule because I'm the biggest geek kind of arrogance). Well, people got pissed at him so he dropped it altogether. His almost equally arrogant friends are still saying they're working on it, even though it's obviously just a lie. I don't really know much, as I don't care about either Mother 3 or the "translation", I've only heard this from people who do care.
I suppose they have a forum of some kind?
Quote
I believe there's another translation project for it though, held by more professional people. I believe their translator is called Tomato, famous for some FF or SD translation. Don't really remember.
I need to study Japanese more, so I can be one of these people.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 19, 2007, 12:45:17 PM
They do.
Bad one: http://www.mother3.org/
New, promising one: http://starmen.net/
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: GUTS on April 19, 2007, 01:56:10 PM
Shimarisu sounds familiar, that name reminds me of some stupid chick who used to complain about how anything but a "literal" japanese translation was horrible, I remember people on the Working Designs message board talking about how annoying she was. She supposedly learned japanese and translated something, maybe it was Ys IV like you said.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 20, 2007, 01:38:15 AM
Yeah that's the guy. His translations are extremely literal, and practically impossible to make any sense of.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Necromancer on April 20, 2007, 03:41:28 AM
Text beeps are way better than voice overs. :wink:
Except for the annoying shit in Exile: WP - it makes my anus bleed.
Super literal translations always suck. Some phrases simply can't be translated properly, but I'm happy if I get the gist of the conversation.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 20, 2007, 10:22:20 AM
I don't remember text bleeps in Exile: WP?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: nodtveidt on April 20, 2007, 06:16:31 PM
Yeah, the text sound in Exile: WP was ultra-annoying. However, another good example of dialogue bleeps was Illusion Of Gaia (SNES).
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 21, 2007, 01:29:08 AM
And Soul Blazer and Terranigma. They used the same font and bleeps. Nice bleeps, to boot.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 21, 2007, 05:27:07 AM
Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma and Soul Blazer are GREAT games....
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: SignOfZeta on April 21, 2007, 11:06:33 AM
I guess I'd have to pick Saturn, although DC is a close second.
I'll never understand the Mega Drive fanaticism. Nearly everything on it is f*cking brown, and software support was very crap compared to PCE and SFC. The CD added something for sure, but CD added much much more to the PCE.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 21, 2007, 11:15:43 AM
I'll never understand the Mega Drive fanaticism. Nearly everything on it is f*cking brown, and software support was very crap compared to PCE and SFC. The CD added something for sure, but CD added much much more to the PCE.
I swear I've seen this before, I'm experiencing MAJOR déja vu.
But Genesis (Mega Drive) 2 was VERY cool looking, and most of the games are awesome.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Hobo Xiphas on April 21, 2007, 11:23:30 AM
It's Keranu. He comes from the mirror universe where he likes everything most people hate and hates everything that most people love.
No that's Seldane. And yes, USA box art kicks ass!
:lol: I'm starting to think your are from the bizarro universe :wink:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 21, 2007, 05:48:14 PM
No, I just have some respect for my country. 8)
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: MrFulci on April 21, 2007, 06:32:31 PM
Genesis was a nice system. Though, it lacked in some areas with it's competition (TG-16, SNES) it had some advantages in other areas and was able to hodl it's own pretty well. I've had no issues with the system, other than at times the speech is a bit garbled.
Each of the Genesis systems ahd their pros and cons. As a stand alone unit, the Genesis 1 is nice, Headphone jack is always welcome. For combining with a Sega CD, if it's a bottom loader, yeah, Genesis 1. If it is the top loader, gotta have the genesis 2. Still, if I'm hooking up a Sega CD, I'd rather have an X'Eye so I have one less AC Adapter plugged in.
The Genesis 1 model Doesn't support stereo through it's A/V jack, though it supports it from the headphone out (I think...) Genesis 2 the stereo is through the A/V cable.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: MrFulci on April 21, 2007, 06:35:11 PM
Oh yeah, the Genesis commercials were very nice... SEGA!
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Hobo Xiphas on April 21, 2007, 06:49:13 PM
Jesus Christ, you Japanophiles have serious aesthetic issues.
How can you not enjoy the Genesis box art? The classic striped motif of Genesis game boxes is very nice indeed.
I'm still reeling over the shock that people can prefer the model 2 over the model 1 Genesis. The model 2 Genesis just looks so generic. :?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: runinruder on April 21, 2007, 07:23:05 PM
The Genesis was a great system, definitely much better than the SNES.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 21, 2007, 08:40:17 PM
I prefer the European MD boxes. The later, blue ones. The red american ones aren't bad either though. I want them all, even though most of them are crap games. I think the japanese boxes generally look pretty boring (the box layout, not the actual picture, which can often be nice). That red/green MD logo is nasty! :P
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1640/md0030vvo3.jpg) One of the not-crap games in a blue box
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: SuperDeadite on April 22, 2007, 12:25:45 AM
The Saturn wins my vote. Back at the parents' house in the States, I have three of them: US Model 2, Japan Model 2 (White), and a HiSaturn (Model 1). Whats really odd is that both my Japanese Saturns are modded, and in both cases the sellers didn't know about them (White Saturn was from GameChoiceClub, HiSaturn was from ebay). When they came in the mail, I opened them up for a routine check and dust cleaning, and said "Strange this is modded." When I bought the HiSaturn and it too came modded I was quite shocked.
Anyone have similar experiences?
P.S. The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever :wink:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 22, 2007, 01:20:58 AM
I've had a similiar experience... I once bought an untested PSone. Turns out it had a modchip installed. Additionally, I got two matching controllers and a memory card with it, none of which the seller said he'd include. It was a nice deal. I think I paid $10 for it.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 22, 2007, 11:22:28 AM
Quote from: MrFulci
I've had no issues with the [Genesis], other than at times the speech is a bit garbled.
Yes, but the SNES and TG-16 also had similar issues. The TG-16 had lots of bad/garbled speech. The SNES had a habit of applying too much reverb into any sound the console made in order to make it sound like the console was built in the future. When these things happened, none was audibly pleasing.
As far as box art is concerned, I am a big fan of the minimalist Sega Master System box designs. There was just something really cool about them. When the Genesis first came out they used the same boxes except black and more space dedicated to artwork and custom fonts. The instruction manual was also taller. I thought that was pretty cool. They eventually went to the RED Genesis boxes with the Cooperplate Gothic Bold Genesis logo font. I didn't like those as much. I really liked it even less when the boxes became made out of paper instead of plastic. People who like paper boxes are complete and total losers who deserve to die by drinking sewer water.
Quote from: Superdeadite
The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever
Please post a video of it.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 22, 2007, 11:38:53 AM
Remember that SEGA VR thing that got canceled due to safety concerns? THAT would have been the best SEGA console. (Think Model 1 with head-tracking in a lightweight helmet...)
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: SuperDeadite on April 22, 2007, 03:17:36 PM
The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever
Please post a video of it.
I'd be happy too, but my system is in America, and I'm in Japan. There don't seem to be any online either from my quick google search. Basically unlike a normal Saturn and V-Saturn's generic gray background boot sequence, the HiSaturn has a gold HiSaturn logo made of polygons, it sort of spins, pans, and zooms for about 2 seconds then fades into a blue background. Really hard to describe... #-o
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 22, 2007, 05:20:50 PM
Is it something like this:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: MrFulci on April 22, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman, haha. Genesis, at times the speech was alright, the other half of the time it was scratchy and garbled so much that I wondered why they had left it in the game. Then again, speech was "new" at the time, so even if it was a bit scratchy, I can see why they would have left it in there.
Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman,
Andre Panza, Davis Cup, Blazing Lazers, World Class Baseball, Parodius, the TV Sports games, Vigilante, and quite a few more.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: GUTS on April 22, 2007, 07:40:38 PM
I also really like Master System and early Genesis game boxes. The TTI released Duo games had cool art on the cases too, I liked how they used the Japanese art back when everybody else was still using awful western art.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 22, 2007, 10:07:37 PM
Ha ha I remember the first boss (I think) in Vigilante saying what sounded like "Heya f*cker!" again and again. Space Harrier on the TG-16 is also pretty bad. I agree that there are a lot of bad voices on the Genesis, with the Street Fighter games being the prime offenders. It's like they were routing the voices through the FM channels. It's too bad, too... because the Genesis is capable of http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3 .
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: MrFulci on April 23, 2007, 12:03:59 AM
ruin,
It's been quite a while since I've loaded any of those games. Bravoman is impossible for me to forget. When it comes to speech on the TG-16, Bravoman does plenty of it, hahha. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, etc, etc, etc.
Nice genesis MP3. It was hit and miss with the speech on that system. The genesis always stuck out with me with speech, because it seemed to offer speech in more games than the SNES or TG-16. Sometimes the system pulled it off pretty well, other times it had the, "huh?" factor.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 23, 2007, 12:18:54 AM
Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman, haha. Genesis, at times the speech was alright, the other half of the time it was scratchy and garbled so much that I wondered why they had left it in the game. Then again, speech was "new" at the time, so even if it was a bit scratchy, I can see why they would have left it in there.
ya you're right there. but then the tg-16 wasn't really much supported in the west by 3rd parties so you'll never gonna get the top talented people doing their magic on this machine..
Only game I think has some sampled speech is on Ys games.
The best way you gonna hear stuff like loads of sampled speech is to look to the japanese market.. only game I can think of that uses a LOT more so than maybe any genesis game is download 2 which uses a lot of sampled speech during its cut scenes..
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 23, 2007, 12:34:35 AM
The games you mentioned are CD games. It isn't much of a problem to include lots of high quality adpcm speech in those games due to the unlimited size of the disc. Cart based games fare a lot worse.
Star Ocean though.... awesome.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 23, 2007, 12:51:36 AM
well the American cover for guardian heroes is one of THE WORST!!!!
Yup thats it alright. I just did a quick google search and usually YouTube vids pop right up, strange. Oh well never been good at these kinds of things.
Here's a nice pic of a Model 1 HiSaturn like I have. Most people don't seem to know these exist. Even the Saturn wiki only mentions the Model 2 (Circle Button) HiSaturn and the HiSaturnNavi. http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b75703240
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 23, 2007, 02:51:41 AM
What's the meaning of the Hi Saturn?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Necromancer on April 23, 2007, 06:00:27 AM
well the American cover for guardian heroes is one of THE WORST!!!!
They are both crap in my opinion, but whatever. :wink:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 23, 2007, 09:09:54 AM
I agree with Joe complelely about the boxes he mentioned: Master System and early Genesis ones ruled, the later red Genesis cases (especially the paper) sucked.
EDIT: And oh yeah, I prefer the USA cover art for Guardian Heroes ;) .
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 23, 2007, 09:44:30 AM
While still incredibly ugly, I think the European artwork looks best:
Ugh. ALL those "Guardian Heroes" cover arts are crap.
Agreed. Treasure really dropped the ball there, perhaps that's why back then it was a sleeper hit. You had to have great box art back then to entice people to play.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 23, 2007, 12:42:20 PM
Ha ha I remember the first boss (I think) in Vigilante saying what sounded like "Heya f*cker!" again and again. Space Harrier on the TG-16 is also pretty bad. I agree that there are a lot of bad voices on the Genesis, with the Street Fighter games being the prime offenders. It's like they were routing the voices through the FM channels. It's too bad, too... because the Genesis is capable of some awesome voice quality (http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3).
Thats a great tech demo for the Genesis. :clap:
None of the 16-bit consoles sux at digitized sounds. Even the NES has some great voice clips and the Intellivision rocks with the Intellivoice adaptor.
Some good examples of voice samples on HuCards are:
Champions Forever Boxing TV Sports Football TV Sports Basketball Street Fighter II
Some CD examples:
Ys IV has great samples in all the boss fights. Unfortunately the only save file I have fot it is at the end, past the speaking bosses.
Lords is an obvious one, although there aren't any real words spoken.
I think that Gulliver Boy's battle voices were decent enough.
Snatcher's got the screaming guy in the shooting range.
I believe that all the Neo Geo ports have samples about as good as the originals.
Kabuki Itouryoden has good voice samples.
There have been times when I've meant to record some decent speech examples from Turbo/PCE games, but even now, like always, I'm just too lazy. Maybe, I'll get some recorded tonight.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 23, 2007, 01:25:47 PM
None of the 16-bit consoles sux at digitized sounds. Even the NES has some great voice clips and the Intellivision rocks with the Intellivoice adaptor.
Dude, Big Bird's Hide n Seek or whatever it's called for NES has some of the clearest digital voice sound effects I have ever heard on a cartridge! I don't think any hardware necessarily has a technical advantage over another in term's of digitized voices, it just depends how well the designer makes it.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Turbo D on April 23, 2007, 01:38:46 PM
I don't think any hardware necessarily has a technical advantage over another in term's of digitized voices, it just depends how well the designer makes it.
I agree, I think alot of the time the designers were either lazy or didn't care.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Digi.k on April 23, 2007, 01:46:24 PM
Those don't count, merely being streaming Redbook audio. A normal CD player can sound that good if you use it to play the game disc.
If we were counting CD Audio games, Popful Mail for SEGA CD would CERTAINLY have been brought up by now.
I think Black Tiger meant samples speech file stored on the game CD format
Its also pretty amazing how the european cover of Guardian Heroes .. they decided to remove the female heroes from the cover and replace them with male baddies... O_o
anyway back to Download 2.. it runs on the old system card and has a hella lot of sampled speech used during the cut scenes but most of it is is sampled and using the good ol' pce sound card.. warning though that intro has a naked guy on it O_o
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 23, 2007, 02:32:09 PM
The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware. That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 23, 2007, 02:53:04 PM
The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware. That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.
I know there's that one Turbo CD game with the infamous "You're too sting-y"...that used Redbook. Popful Mail used Redbook. I guess I'm just misinformed. ._.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 23, 2007, 04:55:56 PM
The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware. That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.
I thought that the long duration/decent quality digitzed sound in fmv games was streamed like the video.
Are you saying that huge sound files gets dumped into the ADPCM chip during a load?
Because games with real actual (long) dialogue only ever run it over PSG music, its pretty far from perfect*, and stops if you open the CD door...
-while most short voice & sound effects are sparce and low quality like HuCards, play over 'redbook' music, and are still present if you open the CD door. I thought that these sfx were the same as any sfx.
And if the games with a bunch of digitized sfx are only using the ADPCM chip, then why aren't all the sfx in all CD games sampled and clear?
*The dialogue sections in Ys IV that I assumed were streamed are a little popping and hissy like most of that kind(doesn't play off the CD in a music CD player) of in game voice(Snatcher's full of it) in PCE CD games.
But the voice effects in the 3 main villian battles, which use phrases taken from the same speech as the previous rough extended dialogue, is actually cleaner/clearer. I always assumed that these kinds of effects were loaded into the System Card like the graphics.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 23, 2007, 06:19:08 PM
You are right, but I am saying that you cannot count streamed ADPCM on Turbo when comparing TurboGrafx games with good/bad voices to Genesis games with good/bad voices since the ADPCM is not part of the TurboGrafx-16 system (it is part of the CD hardware), just as the extra PCM chips in the Sega CD are not part of the Genesis hardware. Obviously the voices are streamed, there's no way to store all that data in RAM. Many Sega CD voices (mostly sound effects) are stored in its 512K PCM RAM, though.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 23, 2007, 09:47:43 PM
Its also pretty amazing how the european cover of Guardian Heroes .. they decided to remove the female heroes from the cover and replace them with male baddies... O_o
I don't think that's strange at all, considering all japanese drawings of female characters are extremely sexist. Not a good thing to put on a product at all.
You are right, but I am saying that you cannot count streamed ADPCM on Turbo when comparing TurboGrafx games with good/bad voices to Genesis games with good/bad voices since the ADPCM is not part of the TurboGrafx-16 system (it is part of the CD hardware), just as the extra PCM chips in the Sega CD are not part of the Genesis hardware. Obviously the voices are streamed, there's no way to store all that data in RAM. Many Sega CD voices (mostly sound effects) are stored in its 512K PCM RAM, though.
Yeah, but I never mentioned streamed voice, only the sound effect kind. Does the ADPCM really play a role in actual sfx with the PCE?
And if it doesn't allow higher sound quality (is only used for storage), then the samples are still run through the PCE hardware and could be used in a HuCard game. In this case, it'd be the equivelant of graphics in a CD game, where the CD and System Card are storage space, but the graphics are still real examples of what the hardware on its own can do.
Do the PCM chips in the Sega-CD increase quality at all? If not, then non-streamed samples in CD games should also be a good example for the Genesis.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 24, 2007, 07:18:43 AM
The ADPCM is another sound chip in itself, just like the 8 channel PCM is a sound chip separate from the Genesis. It resides in the CD hardware and can only be used by CD games (though it would be REALLY cool to see HuCard or Sega cartridge games use extra features of the CD hardware... though that kind of happens with HuCard games that save). It's kind of like saying the Genesis can't do an accurate version of Space Harrier 1, even though the 32X (which adds stuff to the Genesis) does a pretty good job at it.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 24, 2007, 08:40:10 AM
Yeah, but I never mentioned streamed voice, only the sound effect kind. Does the ADPCM really play a role in actual sfx with the PCE?
Actually don't some CD games do? Shubibin Man 3 comes to mind with the window breaking sound effects in the second level along with various others. I do know that a secret Frozen Utopia project will be use some ADPCM sound effects ;) .
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 24, 2007, 01:10:23 PM
The ADPCM is another sound chip in itself, just like the 8 channel PCM is a sound chip separate from the Genesis. It resides in the CD hardware and can only be used by CD games (though it would be REALLY cool to see HuCard or Sega cartridge games use extra features of the CD hardware... though that kind of happens with HuCard games that save). It's kind of like saying the Genesis can't do an accurate version of Space Harrier 1, even though the 32X (which adds stuff to the Genesis) does a pretty good job at it.
But how do you know when sfx are using the ADPCM and when they're just the same as HuCard samples?
Because most sampled sfx in PCE CD games aren't anything special.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 24, 2007, 03:06:51 PM
But how do you know when sfx are using the ADPCM and when they're just the same as HuCard samples?
Maybe it sounds better? :-k
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 24, 2007, 06:02:47 PM
For the longest time I didn't know about the ADPCM (it wasn't mentioned in any of the mags and I figured the Turbo was doing all of the non-redbook sound work, including all of the streamed voices. I was almost kind of sad to find out that was not the case. Anyway with the quality of the ADPCM being what it is, it is indeed hard to tell what would be making the sound... the Turbo or the CD ADPCM chip. I'm under the impression that anything sampled in CD games comes from the PCM chip (unless it is simply a HuCard game on a CD, etc). Maybe there is some way to see what channels do what in an emulator? I'm pretty sure that the cool growls and yells in Lords of Thunder are ADPCM, and they are obviously loaded into memory and not streamed.
On the Genesis 1 + Sega CD 1 it is easy to tell what is making a sound if you have it hooked up with the included mixing cable. Just turn down the volume on the Genesis 1 and every sound you hear will be from the CD unit. All of the Genesis-made sounds will go away.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on April 24, 2007, 11:47:55 PM
Well you can turn off the volume on each individual chip, including adpcm in Magic Engine.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 25, 2007, 02:17:50 AM
For the longest time I didn't know about the ADPCM (it wasn't mentioned in any of the mags and I figured the Turbo was doing all of the non-redbook sound work, including all of the streamed voices. I was almost kind of sad to find out that was not the case. Anyway with the quality of the ADPCM being what it is, it is indeed hard to tell what would be making the sound... the Turbo or the CD ADPCM chip. I'm under the impression that anything sampled in CD games comes from the PCM chip (unless it is simply a HuCard game on a CD, etc). Maybe there is some way to see what channels do what in an emulator? I'm pretty sure that the cool growls and yells in Lords of Thunder are ADPCM, and they are obviously loaded into memory and not streamed.
On the Genesis 1 + Sega CD 1 it is easy to tell what is making a sound if you have it hooked up with the included mixing cable. Just turn down the volume on the Genesis 1 and every sound you hear will be from the CD unit. All of the Genesis-made sounds will go away.
I tried a few CD games the other day, while playing with the ADPCM volume in Magic Engine. They all used only the ADPCM for sampled effects. :( Some of the games were Lords, Drac X, World Heroes 2, Kabuki Itouryoden and Dragon Slayer.
Which is kinda lame, since so much more could be done with the CD format and multiple sound channels(which no longer need to get eaten up by PSG music).
Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips- http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3
And here are samples from the same games, but with a bunch more- http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3
Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 29, 2007, 11:16:26 AM
Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips- http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3
And here are samples from the same games, but with a bunch more- http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3
Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.
It's on par with the Genesis. Did you make that catchy little song in the beginning of the second example? That was awesome! It reminds me of what they used to do with the PC speaker in on PC games: http://www.oldskool.org/sound/pc/#digitized
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on April 29, 2007, 11:59:21 AM
Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.
It's on par with the Genesis. Did you make that catchy little song in the beginning of the second example? That was awesome! It reminds me of what they used to do with the PC speaker in on PC games: http://www.oldskool.org/sound/pc/#digitized
Thats all directly taken from Champions Forever Boxing. All the music is mixed from samples. There are only a couple of PSG sounds in the whole game.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 30, 2007, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: Black_Tiger
Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips-
Those are cool, thanks for doing that. I feel that the Genesis' best voices (in the Mp3 I provided) sound a bit cleaner. These kind of "pop on" and "pop off". But these are definitely better than the NES and I like hearing examples of what the system is doing on a card-only basis. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more MP3s of other systems' best voices like NES, SMS hell even the 7800 and Intellivision! Oh I guess we should throw SNES in there as well, to be fair.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on April 30, 2007, 03:04:24 PM
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 30, 2007, 03:52:42 PM
Here is a voice comparison of Street Fighter II between the SNES (Turbo with a paltry 20 megs), Genesis (Special Champion Edition with 24 furious power-packed megs), and TurboGrafx-16 Entertainment SuperSystem (Champion Edition with a pathetic 20 megs). - 6 voices each. http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/SF2.mp3
None of them sound "great", but the Genesis definitely sounds the worst. Capcom never mastered that system, unfortunately. I find it interesting that some of the SNES voices are faster, especially on "Tiger Uppercut" and Ryu's "Perfekshetburrrrllget!!!"
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: guyjin on April 30, 2007, 04:56:04 PM
I never noticed that Chun li's defeat cry doesn't echo on the genesis, or the tg16. Does it echo in the arcade?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 30, 2007, 06:06:08 PM
But these are definitely better than the NES and I like hearing examples of what the system is doing on a card-only basis.
You obviously haven't played the Sesame Street games for NES, it has the best voice samples coming from a cartridge. :dance:
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 30, 2007, 06:08:40 PM
Prove it or I will call you a whore.
Guyjin, it is possible that I picked the wrong sample from the SNES version. THE Genesis and PCE versions have the same samples under the same numbers in the sound test, but the SNES version is all screwed up and you can't even switch numbers in the sound test with the d-pad. This proves that the SNES is technically inferior to everything, even a Pontiac Grand-Am.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on April 30, 2007, 06:10:55 PM
I don't have the real cart to record from (I know how much you demand this), so would it be ok for me to record from an emulator?
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Hobo Xiphas on April 30, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
I can vouch for the incredible voice work in the Seasme Street games for NES.
They are the equal to anything I've heard on a Genesis or SNES cart, seriously.
"YOU FOUND....THE COUNT!"
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on April 30, 2007, 10:49:02 PM
I tried the Sesame Street Count game in an emulator. Rarely is there more than one or two words said at a time. Then they are pieced together like "you found....... .... ... four" and "find...... ..... .. ... ..... . four"
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on May 01, 2007, 01:47:54 AM
Those are cool, thanks for doing that. I feel that the Genesis' best voices (in the Mp3 I provided) sound a bit cleaner. These kind of "pop on" and "pop off". But these are definitely better than the NES and I like hearing examples of what the system is doing on a card-only basis. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more MP3s of other systems' best voices like NES, SMS hell even the 7800 and Intellivision! Oh I guess we should throw SNES in there as well, to be fair.
The problem is that like other effects and such, most developers either didn't put too much effort into HuCard development or were super stingy with the Meg size.
Although those were some of the better examples I found after a quick browse through Magic Engine, at least the best of them show a benchmark what can be done with real Turbo hardware. Who knows how good samples could've got.
Plus Champions Forever, SFII and TV Sports Football all have a large ammount of sampled audio, so chances are they didn't use the highest quality possible. I wouldn't be surprised if Champions Forever uses more space for sound than graphics. :P
I was going to include the Mario voice sample demo, but the only computers in my house that work with my flash card are down.
Even though the Intellivoice is extra hardware like the Turbo CD-ROM, I don't think that many people will be any less impressed by the voice samples. :)
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on May 01, 2007, 10:24:00 AM
I tried the Sesame Street Count game in an emulator. Rarely is there more than one or two words said at a time. Then they are pieced together like "you found....... .... ... four" and "find...... ..... .. ... ..... . four"
Who cares about that. You know the quality itself was the crispest you've ever heard.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on May 01, 2007, 10:57:18 AM
I tried the Sesame Street Count game in an emulator. Rarely is there more than one or two words said at a time. Then they are pieced together like "you found....... .... ... four" and "find...... ..... .. ... ..... . four"
It's like the educational games for SNES starring Mario, with the little kids saying "Let's go to..........................................................Alphabet World!".
Except on the SNES it sounds like it was recorded in the Vatican...
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on May 01, 2007, 01:02:03 PM
LOL!
I will definitely agree that the voices in Sesame Street are absolutely amazing for the NES, but I think even the Turbo's best sound better quality-wise.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on May 01, 2007, 02:09:27 PM
I just tried out the Sesame Street game on an emulator and the voice is amazing!
Way better than the lispy 'Turle Powor!' from TMNT.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on May 01, 2007, 02:14:36 PM
The Sega Master System generally had pretty crappy voices, but the ones in Street Fighter 2 were really good, all things considered. http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/SF2_SMS.mp3
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Black Tiger on May 01, 2007, 02:35:19 PM
The Sega Master System generally had pretty crappy voices, but the ones in Street Fighter 2 were really good, all things considered.
Click here to listen (http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/SF2_SMS.mp3)
Was that captured from a real cart? Because it sounds a little different than when I play it on my PC in Meka. :-k
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Joe Redifer on May 01, 2007, 02:37:24 PM
No I used an emulator called SMS Plus on the Mac... more proof that you can't really trust emulation for accurate results. So which emulator is wrong? Impossible to say without the actual game. Both are probably wrong.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Kitsunexus on May 01, 2007, 02:39:48 PM
Was that captured from a real cart? Because it sounds a little different than when I play it on my PC in Meka. :-k
EDIT: Joe only captures from real hardware, and MEKA is a shit emulator anyway, use KEGA Fusion.
Amd Joe, what's with the Casio VL-1 in the background!? :lol:
I only play SMS carts on SMS/MarkIII hardware and only emulate SMS roms in SMS emus. [-(
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: Keranu on May 01, 2007, 06:46:36 PM
There are lots of other NES games I have played with really good voices too, but I don't know any off hand. I'll have to go through the ROM list sometime to pick them out.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: kungfukid on May 29, 2007, 03:00:41 AM
Yeah, those voice samples from SMS SF2 are about right - I just played the cart to see and they are actually quite good. They're not bad on Mortal Kombat 2 and Robocop V Terminator as well.
Title: Re: Sega's best console
Post by: FM-77 on May 29, 2007, 03:09:09 AM
By the way, Kega Fusion is not good at emulating the Sega Master System, as it stretches out the picture. It is impossible to get a correct aspect ratio using it. Meka is much better, but features a nasty GUI which renders the entire thing unusable.