Author Topic: New Valis game out in Japan  (Read 3516 times)

FM-77

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2006, 05:15:05 AM »
Terrible!! I hate porn, and I hate CARTOON PORN even more because how the hell can someone actually draw that sh*t? Man. Then they do it with a pretty cool game. Scum. I hate them.

esteban

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2006, 06:58:27 AM »
Wow, what a post Zig / Emerald. It kicked my ass.

Quote from: "nodtveidt"
Well, I guess I can sort of understand, if I look at the issue from a conservative, religious, or sheep societical point of view. But has anyone even played it yet? Everyone's basically judging the whole thing by a single in-your-face article that is clearly skewed by a conservative mindset. If I were y'all, I'd wait until more sites review the game, and then decide. You don't even know if the whole "rape" thing is even legitimate...it could simply be conservative babbling intended to make the game look "worse". It's your choice and your feelings in the end, but I personally think some are getting way too worked up over what is essentially a non-subject. That's my opinion, and my feeling.

Cosmic Porntasy? Hrm...I think I can do that one. :lol:
No, I think you missed the point. I'm not a prude. I don't have a problem with pornography or risque games. On the political landscape, I'm as far from "conservative" as you can get.

The problem is that, in general, hentai games don't rely on "exceptional gameplay" or "impressive storytelling" to sell. They are conceived and marketed to TITILATE. And, more often than not, this sort of titilation is shallow and forgettable.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but do you know what gets me excited? The prospect of a new Valis game! Do you know what I could care less about? A new Valis game that relies heavilly (solely) on pixelated boobs and sex to entertain. Snatcher (immersive story) this isn't. Valis III (decent platformer) this isn't .

So, it doesn't matter if Valis X is the best game in its genre. It could very well be the best, most awesome example of hentai. The problem is that I want to see a proper follow-up to the preceding Valis games.

As Zig pointed out, Valis X flies in the face of the established characters and storylines. Valis X craps on the preceding games.

A company makes games to make money. Telenet essentially said: "We want a good return on our investment, and we know that a shallow Valis hentai game will have a bigger market and sell more units than a Valis platformer. And, to make Valis X on par with other titles in the genre, we'll simply take the Valis characters, strip them down to a caricature of their former selves, and stick them into an endless string of cliched and generic sexual situations."

Formula for success!

There was no reason to make a hentai Valis (except to cash-in on the brand recognition). They could have just left the series alone and allow it to rest in peace. I would have been much happier.

You know I love you nodtveidt :) . It's just that Valis X is so pointlessly contrived.

I have much more respect for the hentai games that pioneered the genre, or were laudible for some other reason. Valis X is not going to be the Deep Throat or Devil in Miss Jones of hentai video games.
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Keranu

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 04:03:13 PM »
Are there any porn games where you get to play as John Holmes?
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

nodtveidt

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2006, 10:39:12 PM »
Okay steve, I understand your point of view. I would probably be pretty upset over it as well if I had the kind of love for the Valis series that you guys have (which I don't). But hey, you never know..maybe they're planning a proper one as well. But what it looks like to me is that the parent company never had any intentions of developing another Valis game, but then along came a third party who made one and impressed the parent company with so much that they decided to publish it. It's not an uncommon practice.

Like it or not, people...sex sells. :D

Dark Fact

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2006, 05:01:20 AM »
Emerald, I can see where you're going with this and your editorial was pretty well written.  Unfortunately, you have to face a grim reality when it comes to gamers in japan.  One of the reasons the Valis games in japan sold alone was the fact that the game featured hot anime girls in skimpy garb.  What does that create? SLEAZY...FANBOYS!!!

I've went to this one fanart website of a Valis fanboy who goes by the name "ghost".  I complimented his drawings on his message board (yes, he does understand English) and he admits that he would like to draw the girls skirts even shorter (because as we all know, short skirts = gratuitous panty shots).

There was another fansite for Valis where this one other fanboy created a small CGI toon showing a tentacle monster piercing Yuko's breasts and giving her breast enlargements.  Another CGI toon shows her getting raped by Rogles. :shock:  

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that fanboys wrote countless letters to Telenet asking them to create a porn game for Valis.  And with the recent boom of porn games in japan (hell, a porn game beat out the launch of the XBOX 360!), it was inevitable that Telenet would look into it.

Some of us would like to look at it as an April Fool's joke but the release date was March 17, not April 1!

Besides, the franchise was also considered long finished until this came up.  I'm not even sure if today's generation of japanese gamers even KNEW the Valis franchise existed.  Who knows? This might revitalize the franchise, even if the methods are questionable.

I wouldn't be surprised if sometime down the road, there will be an Ys hentai game with Adol getting it on with the goddesses!  After all, like nodtveidt just said, sex sells!

Sorry, but I don't see your library card on the books of Ys.  Now, RETURN THEM TO ME!!!

esteban

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2006, 05:07:43 AM »
Quote from: "nodtveidt"
Okay steve, I understand your point of view. I would probably be pretty upset over it as well if I had the kind of love for the Valis series that you guys have (which I don't). But hey, you never know..maybe they're planning a proper one as well. But what it looks like to me is that the parent company never had any intentions of developing another Valis game, but then along came a third party who made one and impressed the parent company with so much that they decided to publish it. It's not an uncommon practice.

Like it or not, people...sex sells. :D
Yeah, I totally understand how you felt as well :). Sorry to come down so hard on you, I should have thrown in some disclaimers that hardcore nerdy / dorky feelings were at play.

Sex sells, for sure. We agree on that point :).
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FM-77

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2006, 06:21:23 AM »
Quote from: "Dark Fact"
I wouldn't be surprised if sometime down the road, there will be an Ys hentai game with Adol getting it on with the goddesses!


I doubt it. Falcom has never made anything sexist. Oh okay, one exception -- Brandish.

Keranu

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2006, 11:28:50 AM »
It wouldn't necessarily have to be Falcom :D , and yes Falcom probably wouldn't make that.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

kingshriek

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2006, 12:55:18 PM »
Quote from: "Seldane"
I doubt it. Falcom has never made anything sexist. Oh okay, one exception -- Brandish.


http://www.saladedemais.com/falcom/index.php/Private_Stripper

Emerald Rocker

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2006, 12:58:33 PM »
Quote from: "Dark Fact"
Emerald, I can see where you're going with this and your editorial was pretty well written.  Unfortunately, you have to face a grim reality when it comes to gamers in japan.  One of the reasons the Valis games in japan sold alone was the fact that the game featured hot anime girls in skimpy garb.  What does that create? SLEAZY...FANBOYS!!!

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that fanboys wrote countless letters to Telenet asking them to create a porn game for Valis.  And with the recent boom of porn games in japan (hell, a porn game beat out the launch of the XBOX 360!), it was inevitable that Telenet would look into it.

Besides, the franchise was also considered long finished until this came up.  I'm not even sure if today's generation of japanese gamers even KNEW the Valis franchise existed.  Who knows? This might revitalize the franchise, even if the methods are questionable.


Dark Fact, your post makes a lot of sense and it represents reality pretty well.  There are a couple things I want to comment on, though, because I'm not entirely happy with the shape of Japanese reality, and I think it's our responsibility to question companies' actions when we don't like what's happening :wink:

(1)
I agree that sex sells.  Zealous fanboys WILL turn suggestive situations into pornographic doujinshi  (key word: doujinshi.  Not sponsored by the original creators.)  This game probably did come about from a particular contingent of people (most likely Valis X's designers) asking Telenet to sponsor a hentai game.  There may have been others who emailed and asked for hentai, but I assure you that there are a lot of fans who wanted a REAL (and non-hentai) Valis game instead.

Even if Valis fans overwhelmingly DID want hentai (which I seriously doubt), the actions of sexually zealous fans shouldn't be quietly accepted.  Suggestive is not the same as pornographic.  I'm not saying this in a "pornography is evil" kind of way.  What I'm saying is that "suggestive clothing" --> "hardcore pornography" is not an inherently natural progression.  The transition from "stimulating attire" to "lesbian encounters" requires a mental leap that was never intended by the original creators.

For one thing, the Valis attire was intended to stimulate the PLAYERS, not other characters.  In other words, the attire's suggestiveness went completely unrecognized within the games themselves.  For the female Valis characters to suddenly have sex with each other is a mental leap that is never suggested by the original series.  I'd even go so far as to say the lesbian sex is a perversion of the first episode's theme of "friendship".

In Valis 2 for the MSX/X68k/PC-88, Megas forces Yuko to strip.  He fully intends to shame her.  If a serious re-telling of Valis 2 were made, and if that scene were changed to end with Megas raping Yuko... I'd be bothered (due to personal admiration of Yuko), but that action would be understandable.  It would at least be *in character* for Megas to do such a thing.

However, it is NOT in character for other females (Reiko, Cham) to have sex with Yuko.  And it's certainly NOT in character for Yuko to use the Valis sword as a dildo.  Furthermore, that potential "Megas rape scene" does not actually happen in Valis 2 because Yuko is supposed to be an icon of inshakable purity.  If Megas had actually screwed Yuko, then the game's optimistic final message to players would have been ruined.

My objection has less to do with pornography, and more to do with my respect for Wolf Team and Renovation's ambitions and my faith in those ambitions.  Valis X spits in the face of Wolf Team, Renovation, and the fans who believed in them.

Even without looking at the ethical aspect... Valis X has nothing to do with the original games and cannot possibly co-exist in the same "fictional reality".  Therefore, as Steve said, it's a pointless follow-up, because it's not really following up.

(2)
If I recall, the porn game that beat out the Xbox 360 launch was Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, which is the "fanbox followup" to Fate/Stay Night, which is one of the best-selling PC games -- hentai or otherwise -- to ever come out of Japan.

Three important points about Fate/Stay Night:

1) the series was born as a hentai series
2) the followup was done by the original developers
3) it's a really damn good game

There are some really, really excellent Japanese hentai games.  "Welcome to Pia Carrot".  "Kimi ga Nozomu Eien".  "To Heart 2".  From looking at the Valis X screens, it is my educated guess that the worth of Valis X as anything other than an "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THAT" shock piece will be minimal.  Genuine QUALITY hentai games like Fate/Hollow Ataraxia are games that expand the genre.  Cash-in efforts like Valis X just leech off of the genre's popularity.

Besides... computer porn has been big in Japan for ten+ years.  Why didn't we receive a hentai Valis 4 years ago?  Why not 2 years ago?  Why not next year?  Did they really have to release this game on the 20th Anniversary of Valis?

Telenet has survived for 13 years since the Death of Valis by making:
Parlor Games
Pachinko Games
Tales series Games

They've done fine, and could have continued doing fine.  So... why did they endorse Valis X?

Simple.  Telenet is using Valis X as a way to promote their downloadable-hentai service.  I'm not anti-capitalist, but cash-in efforts such as this demonstrate the ugliness of a purely capitalist approach.
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FM-77

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2006, 10:21:20 PM »
Quote from: "kingshriek"
Quote from: "Seldane"
I doubt it. Falcom has never made anything sexist. Oh okay, one exception -- Brandish.


http://www.saladedemais.com/falcom/index.php/Private_Stripper


Oh right, I forgot about that, but that is their fifth game ever released. The people behind it probably aren't even part of Falcom anymore.

Dark Fact

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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2006, 08:24:41 AM »
You hit the nail on the head for everything that is wrong with the game, Emerald.  As a Valis fan, even I'm not pleased with the direction that the company's took in order to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the franchise.  If anything, they should've released a new console game and/or make an anime series (you wouldn't believe how badly I want to see a Valis anime).

Another problem I have is with the current designs for the characters.  Now, they do look nice and all but the Yuko in these images doesn't look as strong-willed and determined as her 80's - 90's character design.  I just wish the original artist would come back and do her image again for the 20th anniversary.  Yuko in the PC-Engine version reminded me of Madoka Ayukawa from Kimagure Orange Road, only brandishing a sword and whooping ass. :D

Even if action was took to remove the hentai game from the market (to which I doubt), it doesn't change the fact that the game is MADE and can get bootlegged if pulled.  Instead of having fans compliment Yuko saying that she is a "strong defender of justice", there will be the ones who will see Yuko as "OHMYf*ckINGGODYUKOISTHEf*ckINGSEX!!! HUBBAHUBBA!!!"  =P~ =P~ =P~

Sorry, but I don't see your library card on the books of Ys.  Now, RETURN THEM TO ME!!!

Black Tiger

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2006, 02:52:36 PM »
Quote from: "GUTS"
Yeah it's pretty weak and big slap in the face to the fans.  Imagine if Westone ressurrected Wonderboy as a gay porn game, I'd be so pissed I could eat a tree.  I totally agree with Emerald, fans wait what, over 10 years for a new Valis game and they get a garbage PORN game?  WTF is that?


A gay porn Wonderboy game would be hilarious.

They wouldn't even need to change the title, unless they wanted use a variant like "Wonderboys".

Its too bad that they're putting so much good looking art into a hentai game instead of a real Valis, but I have no problem with it and wouldn't be bothered by hentai or other undesirable variants of other series' I like.

As long as they originals exist, they'll always stand on their own.

I'm more disgusted with the X68000 versions of Ys I & II than I would be by an Ys porno.
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FM-77

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2006, 02:21:54 AM »
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
I'm more disgusted with the X68000 versions of Ys I & II than I would be by an Ys porno.


Ys II was never released on the X68000.

If you mean True-Ys and True-YsII (ports of the PC-9801 versions of Ys/YsII), that's not official. It was hacked by some Japanese fans known as Team Milkhouse, and aren't bad ports at all.

The only official Ys games for the X68000 are Ys for X68000 (yeah, that's what it is called), developed by Dempa Micomsoft / S. Senoo and YsIII developed by Falcom themselves (this is also the best version of YsIII. Ever.)

Black Tiger

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New Valis game out in Japan
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2006, 11:10:49 AM »
Quote from: "Seldane"
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
I'm more disgusted with the X68000 versions of Ys I & II than I would be by an Ys porno.


Ys II was never released on the X68000.

If you mean True-Ys and True-YsII (ports of the PC-9801 versions of Ys/YsII), that's not official. It was hacked by some Japanese fans known as Team Milkhouse, and aren't bad ports at all.

The only official Ys games for the X68000 are Ys for X68000 (yeah, that's what it is called), developed by Dempa Micomsoft / S. Senoo and YsIII developed by Falcom themselves (this is also the best version of YsIII. Ever.)


Yeah, the Dempa game. This thing-

http://homepage2.nifty.com/tkdate/ysmusic/screen/Shot_Ys_X68K.html

This is whats gross to me.
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