What were the life time sales for the PCE/PCEDuo

[Dicer]

Just wondering and can't seem to find much info....

Thanks in advance.

[Black Tiger]

Just wondering and can't seem to find much info....

Because there isn't much of any.

Lots of people toss around the 11 million figure for Japan, but it's unclear whether that includes all the various models.

[SamIAm]

Japanese wikipedia sez:

GamePro.com reported sales of 2.5 million for the US and 7.5 million for all other regions (which are composed almost entirely of Japan) for a total of 10 million worldwide.

However, the Asahi Newspaper (Japan's biggest newspaper) reported in an article from 2001 that the PC Engine sold 5.8 million worldwide.

And Famitsu (Japan's biggest gaming magazine) reported domestic Japanese sales of 3.92 million HuCard systems and 1.92 million CD systems including all variants.

I would bet that the Asahi Newspaper and Famitsu are both right, meaning that there were a little under 2 million systems sold in the US, and PCE Duo sales were added to both figures in Famitsu's report. The GamePro numbers reek of being estimated on the spot, and 7.5 million sounds high to me just based on how much PCE stuff seems to be floating around the market in Japan compared to other systems.

NEC has also been directly quoted as saying that the PC-FX sold 1/50th as much as the PC Engine, and PC-FX sales are said to be around 100k, so that adds up. Although the 100k figure might be derived from the assumption of 5 million PCE sales plus that 1/50th figure.

[TheClash603]

How times have changed.

The Wii U is a "failure" with over 6 million lifetime sale and counting.

The PCE was one of the biggest success stories in Japan in its day and worldwide sales were approximately 7 million.

[Dicer]

Seems low...but I'll take it interest was sparked by the Nintendo financial report which has numbers and I know the PCE was competition for Fami/mega drive just wanted to see where it sat over there.

[A Black Falcon]

Japanese wikipedia sez:

GamePro.com reported sales of 2.5 million for the US and 7.5 million for all other regions (which are composed almost entirely of Japan) for a total of 10 million worldwide.

However, the Asahi Newspaper (Japan's biggest newspaper) reported in an article from 2001 that the PC Engine sold 5.8 million worldwide.

And Famitsu (Japan's biggest gaming magazine) reported domestic Japanese sales of 3.92 million HuCard systems and 1.92 million CD systems including all variants.

I would bet that the Asahi Newspaper and Famitsu are both right, meaning that there were a little under 2 million systems sold in the US, and PCE Duo sales were added to both figures in Famitsu's report. The GamePro numbers reek of being estimated on the spot, and 7.5 million sounds high to me just based on how much PCE stuff seems to be floating around the market in Japan compared to other systems.

NEC has also been directly quoted as saying that the PC-FX sold 1/50th as much as the PC Engine, and PC-FX sales are said to be around 100k, so that adds up. Although the 100k figure might be derived from the assumption of 5 million PCE sales plus that 1/50th figure.

Those are some pretty good estimates for Japanese sales, but "a little under 2 million" US sales sounds extremely optimistic to me.  I've heard a 900k number mentioned before, for US TG16 sales, plus 30-50k each for the CD and Duo (though some think the Duo sold more than that).  Even if those estimates for CD and Duo sales are a bit low, there's no question that in the US they only sold a fraction as much as the TG16, which didn't sell very well itself.  I can't see 2 million as a possible total number.

And if those two reports you mention are accurate, it probably didn't.  I mean, 5.8 million worldwide, for all models?  That does sound a bit low, but if US sales are a million total for all models, and Japanese sales are 3.9 million + some fraction of 1.9 million, it adds up.  The big question is, what's the breakdown of that 1.9 million number, how much of it is overlap... but there's no answer to that I'm sure.

[esteban]

I agree that a million TOTAL for TG-16 + TG-CD + TurboDUO is much more likely than 1.5-2 million figure that floats around. 

Don't forget that companies are always playing around with numbers, and don't always report units actually sold to paying customers, but instead report number of units shipped to retail stores.

Anyway, I'm very conservative when it comes to estimating TG-16/DUO sales.

[Black Tiger]

I agree that a million TOTAL for TG-16 + TG-CD + TurboDUO is much more likely than 1.5-2 million figure that floats around. 

Don't forget that companies are always playing around with numbers, and don't always report units actually sold to paying customers, but instead report number of units shipped to retail stores.

Anyway, I'm very conservative when it comes to estimating TG-16/DUO sales.

Don't forget that NEC especially, and later TTi, both manufactured way more than the market demanded initially and that it continued to be sold off officially through 2001. How many of those "official" figures do you think were calculated after 2001?

We've never had anything near solid evidence that TE/GT, LT, LaserActive, etc were included either. Judging by how common TE/GTs in particular are, their numbers alone must be high.

Don't forget that most rough figures have been shown to have been taken out of context, especially the "I think I heard once" type stuff. Like how a comment by Vic Ireland was not so long ago used as definitive proof for a very accurate sales figure of Turbo-CD units... unless you actually think it through for a second (most didn't).

The fact of the matter is that because of the time the 16-bit gen took place, we'll never have accurate sales numbers for Genesis and SNES. There wasn't any kind of definitive system in place to track this kind of stuff and the Turbo/PCE is all the more mysterious.

Console War enthusiasts are the ones who obsess over uncertain figures and like to spin them to favor the console they've affiliated themselves to.

How times have changed.

The Wii U is a "failure" with over 6 million lifetime sale and counting.

The PCE was one of the biggest success stories in Japan in its day and worldwide sales were approximately 7 million.

The problem is that media and business enthusiasts are more interested in commercial dominance than video game systems' video game playing ability.

I don't consider the Sega Master System or Turbo libraries to be failures. They may not have dominated the mass appeal market, which as you pointed out has radically changed in size over time, but they were very successful as video game experiences. Both consoles went the distance and saw game releases spanning a console generation length of time and both libraries are much larger than necessary. How many games did the average person own? More than 100? How many great games justifies a console? Very few for me, but both the SMS and Turbo are loaded with them and they remain memorable and entertaining to this day.

I'm not very familiar with the Wii U, but the way I understand it, more games are accurately playable than the disastrous motion-only Wii library and there seems to already be more than enough games normies consider great. So by modern game standards, the Wii U could be discontinued immediately and still eternally be a success.

[lukester]

Working Designs said there were only about 20,000 Turbo CD units in the U.S.

[Black Tiger]

Working Designs said there were only about 20,000 Turbo CD units in the U.S.

Exactly.

[imparanoic]

it's probable that the pc engine units sold in japan was between 6-8 million on the basis that megadrive had installed user base of 3.5million ( distant third) in japan and based on accounts, pc engine was very popular and second to super famicom which had 17 million user installed base in japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles_(Japan)

but by references over the years, megadrive was a distant third in their home market, nowadays,  even buying both consoles and games for megadrive from Asian countries and japan are not that common unlike pc engine and super famicom from online auctions and physical stores.

you also got to consider Taiwan, Hong Kong and unofficially china as well as licensed ver of pc engine in korea contributing a million here and there, as well as few tens of thousands unofficially imported to European countries

so, 9-10 million is possible when you take this account

[esteban]

I agree that a million TOTAL for TG-16 + TG-CD + TurboDUO is much more likely than 1.5-2 million figure that floats around. 

Don't forget that companies are always playing around with numbers, and don't always report units actually sold to paying customers, but instead report number of units shipped to retail stores.

Anyway, I'm very conservative when it comes to estimating TG-16/DUO sales.

Don't forget that NEC especially, and later TTi, both manufactured way more than the market demanded initially and that it continued to be sold off officially through 2001. How many of those "official" figures do you think were calculated after 2001?

We've never had anything near solid evidence that TE/GT, LT, LaserActive, etc were included either. Judging by how common TE/GTs in particular are, their numbers alone must be high.

Don't forget that most rough figures have been shown to have been taken out of context, especially the "I think I heard once" type stuff. Like how a comment by Vic Ireland was not so long ago used as definitive proof for a very accurate sales figure of Turbo-CD units... unless you actually think it through for a second (most didn't).

The fact of the matter is that because of the time the 16-bit gen took place, we'll never have accurate sales numbers for Genesis and SNES. There wasn't any kind of definitive system in place to track this kind of stuff and the Turbo/PCE is all the more mysterious.

Console War enthusiasts are the ones who obsess over uncertain figures and like to spin them to favor the console they've affiliated themselves to.

I don't think TTi, and later TZD, sold too many DUO's.

An already niche market was now completely reduced to a handful of crazy bastards. Us. The TurboList. But most of us had the hardware already.

LaserActive? I'm not silly to suggest that a mere handful were ever sold. Period.

LT? Negligible, as well (in Japan).

TE? I'm afraid it wouldn't be a significant amount. Not significant to radically change any estimates, anyway. I feel that TE was certainly more popular than LA...but that's not saying much.

[SamIAm]

I still think Asahi Newspaper's 5.8 million global sales quote is probably accurate, or at least very close.

I checked again, and it appears that Famitsu's domestic Japanese numbers, 3.92 million HuCard systems and 1.92 million CD systems, puts Duos exclusively in the CD systems group. Searching for info about Duo sales in particular, I found this webpage which says that the Duo systems sold about one million (and that the CD-ROM ad-ons sold about one million, which fits the 1.92 figure well). That seems reasonable to me.

So that would mean that Japan has just under five million independently playable systems, just under two million of which can play CD-ROM games. Put that together with Asahi's figure and the US has somewhere around 1 million. That sounds reasonable to me.

it's probable that the pc engine units sold in japan was between 6-8 million on the basis that megadrive had installed user base of 3.5million ( distant third) in japan and based on accounts, pc engine was very popular and second to super famicom which had 17 million user installed base in japan but by references over the years, megadrive was a distant third in their home market, nowadays,  even buying both consoles and games for megadrive from Asian countries and japan are not that common unlike pc engine and super famicom from online auctions and physical stores.

It's a fallacy to assume that the sales of the 2nd place contender lies right in the middle of the 1st and the 3rd. Nintendo walloped everybody back then in sales, both with the Famicom and the Super Famicom. This is obvious when looking in used game stores and Goodwill-style recycle stores. Nintendo stuff is everywhere.

Also, I think that in 89, 90 and 91, the PC Engine was much stronger, but the Mega Drive crept up on it in the later years. 3.5 million Megadrives, 3.9 million PC Engines and another million Duos seems very believable to me based on availability in Japan.

You also can't really say much by comparing import demand for the systems, except that the Genesis was more popular in the US than Japan, and the PCE was more popular in Japan than the US. Not to mention, many Mega Drive games are region locked in a way that can't be defeated with a simple cart-port mod or a converter.

You also got to consider Taiwan, Hong Kong and unofficially china as well as licensed ver of pc engine in korea contributing a million here and there, as well as few tens of thousands unofficially imported to European countries

I would be shocked if sales in all regions other than the US/Canada and Japan exceeded even half a million. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not even 100k. The Korean system is incredibly hard to come by. I mean, systems that sold in the 50-100k region (PC-FX, Supergrafx, Playdia) are far, far easier to locate.

[Black Tiger]

Dragon Quest had such an impact in Japan that it kicked off the RPG craze and inspired the launch day rule/law. It was the ultimate killer app for the time. The Famicom is supposed to have sold 19.3 million units and the Super Famicom 17.2 million units in Japan. Here's the reported sales of the most popular series* for the most popular consoles:

FC Dragon Quest: 1.5 million in Japan

FC Dragon Quest II: 2.4 million in Japan

FC Dragon Quest III: 3.8 million in Japan

FC Dragon Quest IV: 3.1 million in Japan

SFC Dragon Quest V: 2.8 million in Japan

SFC Dragon Quest VI: 3.2 million in Japan


*for reference, Super Mario 3 is reported to have sold 4 million copies after 5 years. I don't know if that includes the All Stars version.


lukester says that Tengai Makyou II sold 1 million copies. Considering how common it is, that is believable. But how is that possible if only 1.92 million CD-ROM units were sold? And if TMII only sold 1 million copies and less than 2 million people ever had the ability to potentially play it, then how did it manage to be ranked 12th by readers in Famitsu's all-time favorite game poll? How impressive could the 2003 budget remakes have been after disc based tech was old news? Is this definitive proof that Famitsu is a niche mag which caters to the small hardcore crowd?

I'm not saying that any of this proves anything, only that speculating is just that and is inconsistent.

[SamIAm]

Regardless of the tastes of their readership, if there is any media source in Japan that was in a good position to get an accurate number from Hudson/NEC, it was famitsu. I can't find which issue it was, but apparently the figure comes from an issue published during the mid 90s.

Where did lukester get the figure for 1 million copies of TMII? I'm searching in Japanese and found an interesting summary:
Game-sales ranking website m-create.com says 158,620.
The game's director himself said 200,000.
Hudson said 300,000.
Hudson also announced later that the total sales of all Tengai series games combined is 2.2 million.

By the way, the number 5 game in that famitsu reader poll is an interactive novel called Machi. You know how many that apparently sold? 120,000.