Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!

[SmokeMonster]

Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?

Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent  designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.

[Arkhan]

Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?

Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent  designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.

Newflash dude, we all blow our free time on these things, free of charge.   I worked on Atlantean during most of my free time.  0$ generated.   This stuff isn't supposed to be for large scale profits.   Could you imagine how idiotic it would've been if the first wave of those were going for upwards of 200$ so we could hastily claim that we broke even?

As I've already stated, now we have established prices on these things. 

So, these kits, once available, will then likely be bought, slapped into machines, and peddled around for 600+$ by a$$holes, because that's exactly what people do.   They do cash grabs that take advantage of idiots, and people with poor financial decision making abilities.

This cuts into the available stock of NES for normal people, and further drives up prices and makes it difficult for people to enjoy.

It's called forward thinking.

and what about when Kevtris/GT see that their kits are being used to turn a bigger profit?  It encourages  them to do the same.     So, while this device is a solid idea, the business maneuvers are dooming it.   Nobody is underestimating the effort that went into any of this.   You seem to have difficulty grasping that.

MSRP is a thing.  You shouldn't let spazzes with triggerhappy eBay behaviors establish the prices.  But, that is what happened. 

Congrats for generating a ton of money and breaking even, or more.   

Boo for inadvertently contributing to the financial idiocy of retro games.

[Necromancer]

Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?

Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent  designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.

Did you even bother to read anyone else's post before jumping in to say 'f*ck teh haters!', and why are you so adamant that there's no middle ground?

The price could have been set at a point where he'd make the 'little' money nobody disagrees he deserves, but instead he chose to set up a cash grab, contributing to the collectard fueled price escalation of all things retro.  Unlike yourself, some of us here actually give a shit about the community and would rather not see it overrun by people looking to make a buck, build on their 'investment', and fishing for virtual hand jobs over their latest unboxing video (see any facebook game group).  That said, I see nothing much wrong with the proposed kit prices; I look at it like RGB mods on a Turbob - I don't see it being worth the cost, but it's a fine option for those that think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the investment.

[SmokeMonster]

I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.

Newflash dude, we all blow our free time on these things, free of charge.   I worked on Atlantean during most of my free time.  0$ generated.   This stuff isn't supposed to be for large scale profits.   Could you imagine how idiotic it would've been if the first wave of those were going for upwards of 200$ so we could hastily claim that we broke even?

You can produce as many games per batch as you need. GT has a limited supply of toploaders collecting dust to get rid of, after which he's going into the business of making affordable kits using the collateral from his sales. Why shouldn't he think on a large scale like Stoneagegamer and other retailers?

As I've already stated, now we have established prices on these things. 

No, people have established an imaginary number in their head of what they want to pay for the first few devices ever sold. You are hardly the person to comment on price, having paid $300 just for composite scaled NES and suggesting that it's just as good as RGB.

So, these kits, once available, will then likely be bought, slapped into machines, and peddled around for 600+$ by a$$holes, because that's exactly what people do.   They do cash grabs that take advantage of idiots, and people with poor financial decision making abilities.

The $600 price will obviously not last. You can't sell a console for its introductory price after six months. These are the early adopters of a hot new piece of hardware, and of course it's more expensive than if they had waited or installed their own kit.

This cuts into the available stock of NES for normal people, and further drives up prices and makes it difficult for people to enjoy.

This is the most ridiculous argument yet and there is no evidence to suggest that HDMI NES kits are going to raise the price of an NES. Please share a single example of this actually happening. The NES was one of the best selling consoles of all time...

It's called forward thinking.

It's also called inventing a story with lots of baseless assumptions. Think into the future when you can buy a kit and install it yourself.

and what about when Kevtris/GT see that their kits are being used to turn a bigger profit?  It encourages  them to do the same.     So, while this device is a solid idea, the business maneuvers are dooming it.   Nobody is underestimating the effort that went into any of this.   You seem to have difficulty grasping that.

MSRP is a thing.  You shouldn't let spazzes with triggerhappy eBay behaviors establish the prices.  But, that is what happened. 

Congrats for generating a ton of money and breaking even, or more.   

Boo for inadvertently contributing to the financial idiocy of retro games.

Yes, it's better to jump to a hundred conclusions in a series of illogical steps... Nothing that you said has any evidence to support it, beyond being worst case scenarios dreamed up by someone who admittedly sees no use for HDMI NES anyways.

[Necromancer]

I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.

Hardly.  You're implying that ANY amount of profit is acceptable and that anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant hater, leaving no middle ground where someone can argue that x amount of profit is okay but y is too much.

But I digress.  You're just another profiteer that makes up bullshit and justifications as you go along, and I've little doubt you're just trying to figure out how you can buy these kits and flip 'em for big monies.

[kevtris]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high.  The availability of kits will mean everyone can get their system modded (or install it themselves if they got the skills) for a lot less.  People are paying for convenience right now and those that "gotta have it" I guess. 

The lack of build instructions and key parts for the kits is the main reason that the first units are being sold pre-modified.  This was an attempt to get units out on the market as quickly as possible while all the back end documentation is being prepared and the parts are being sourced that go with the bare boards to make it into a proper kit.

The other thing we could've done was just kept units back and did nothing for a month or two while the documentation and parts sourcing occurred.

As for "selling untested units" to people, this isn't true.  The new run of boards is the same design as the last set of protos, so there's nothing new there.   

All the cash made on the auctions is going directly back in to fund the next round of boards, so we're not even making any money on them.   Kind of like a kickstarter, except we have a product we can deliver right away, instead of maybe having something ready in 2 years.

Btw the kit price is $120 and not $150.

[Arkhan]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high

You must not have been to any game conventions lately.  Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.


I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.

120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$.   I can see that happening.   People are idiots.

[SmokeMonster]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high

You must not have been to any game conventions lately.  Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.


I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.

120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$.   I can see that happening.   People are idiots.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.

I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.

Hardly.  You're implying that ANY amount of profit is acceptable and that anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant hater, leaving no middle ground where someone can argue that x amount of profit is okay but y is too much.

But I digress.  You're just another profiteer that makes up bullshit and justifications as you go along, and I've little doubt you're just trying to figure out how you can buy these kits and flip 'em for big monies.

No, I said that it's fair to let the market decide the price for the first consoles. Especially when the buyers absolutely know that a kit is coming. But I digress, you're just another person who admitted no interest in the device anyways.

[PunkicCyborg]

RGB modded NES's are already selling for $250-350. The kits are not that cheap, install can take a couple hours and you need the right tools to do it so the install isn't that cheap and then most people want 3d printed parts. The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to.
I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks. Even going off of pictures on a computer can't really do it justice compared to seeing a set in real life. I am looking forward to seeing the image from the NT a local friend bought. From what I've seen the image looks absolutely perfect and the extra features to adjust the image and palettes look like a lot of fun to tinker with.
TVs barely have composite jacks even anymore. I don't really like HDMI much personally, I don't think it's a very reliable connection and the restrictions it has are irritating but it's the standard now and a lot of poeple want to move with the times and keep playing their old games on new sets without them looking like crap. The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.

[BigusSchmuck]

I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..

you're not alone, I thought this was it

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

[PunkicCyborg]

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk

[Arkhan]

The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to.

Except, they did...  See what I said about setting up a BIN instead....

I'm not quite sure what it is with people in this thread sucking at reading.

I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks.

I've seen similar, and I am not really impressed.   Partially because of reasons already stated, in that NES never really looks that stellar.  The best RGB mod + the best RGB monitor around doesn't improve the actual graphical capabilities of the machine...  you just get really crisp plainness.   

You're more than welcome to come stand in front of a Playchoice 10 and try to convince me that it's so much better than what I am staring at when I play on my couch.  I tried to convince myself of it to justify dumping money into RGB, but I wasn't able to.

Fire up an emulator on a CRT.   That's what you're after, essentially.   It's not too great.  I used to stare at that all the time when I was too young to afford imports and wanted to play Samurai Pizza Cats. 

I don't really subscribe to the "pro crt RGB wank" attitude because it's all fairly overrated and not nearly as great as any of you guys seem to imply, especially for something like NES. 

I ditched all that crap for an upscaler and a 60" TV.   Haven't noticed a loss of gaming enjoyment, but have noticed more space for cooler stuff since I dumped like 10 RGB monitors on other people.

This is where you bring up "input lag" that's unrecognizable by the human brain, and act like I have no taste or poor eye sight because I don't whip my dick out for this stuff.

I did tests on XRGB3 vs. composite into a 1084S, and saw no measurable difference in gameplay.  In fact, I did better on some games with XRGB3 because I could see what the f*ck I was doing.

That shit is the gaming dork equivalent of those people that buy all that high end audiophile equipment and try to convince everyone that their auditory experience is vastly superior when really, it isn't.  It's some marginal improvement that you only notice if you're looking for it, being snooty, or have a side by side comparison to something lesser.

You will have the same memories and feelings as the person with the "inferior" setup.

It's not like anyone's brain retains the quality difference.  Kind of like how audiophiles don't somehow hum a song in higher quality because they heard it better.    I used to play SNES on a B&W TV.   The first time I beat LttP was in B&W.  Somehow though, my brain has implanted the colors into that time, since I've also beaten it in color.   

It's mostly psychology and dick waving.   I've got some of the high end vinyl playback stuff.  It's whatever.  The records aren't immediately asstastic when you play them on your grandma's dusty ass recordplayer and gooned up speakers.

Sure, the nicer equipment leads to a "nicer" experience, but, it doesn't mean the non-expensive/fancy setup is worthless and shouldn't even exist. 

The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.

Yeah, dude, you're right.  Crazy doesn't seem crazy when everything is already batshit insane.   

I'm not a fan of adding fuel to fires.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now.    When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader.   That's scary.

Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.

How can we forget them?  They're the ones who shot the auctions up to 700+$.  They are the ones that establish these moronic prices that normal people are impacted by.   Why do you not understand this?

We're not here to defend them, and unfortunately, "the majority" is not normal people.  It's idiots.  We're outnumbered by idiots.  I am way too observant of this at game conventions.   For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.


ANYWAY:

This thing (the HDMI thing) will be a pretty solid thing once it's out in some obtainable capacity though.    Plus it will stop people from cannibalizing machines just for RGB mods so they can pat themselves on the back and try to convince themselves that it was worth it. 

This device, in my opinion, is actually better than f*cking around with that for a few reasons.

1) It's cheaper (sort of, we hope, please)
2) It's easier (just jam it in any TV since like 10 years ago)
3) The video quality gives you that same crisp appearance and quality, if you really need it that bad.

I've seen RGB'd NES setups in action.  I've seen this thing in action.  I'd say the end result is pretty good, as long as the prices don't approach infinity retard.

[BigusSchmuck]

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk

I didn't realize it had a hdmi port on that sucker. You learn something new everyday..

[SmokeMonster]

For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.

Says the guy who's constantly making ranting personal attacks and defending the incredible quality of composite NES on his $300 scaler.

Everyone buying in at the current price is funding the operation. A $1000 kickstarter prize to the top 20 people would have been the same deal, except that a thousand other contributors would be at risk for the $120 kits that may or may not have materialized out of it.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now.    When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader.   That's scary.

Wow, you're like an oracle. What else do you forsee? Hi-Def installs in front or top loaders. Are you suggesting that front-loaders will all disappear too?

[esteban]

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