Giant Wall of Text Powers Activate!!! Those that cant handle giant walls of text feel free to skip down to the next totally engaging, highly informal RomMaster Zero or DK post.Ok, I'm going to start off with this:
First, I love the idea of the kit, and I 100 percent believe GT and Kev should make a reasonable profit on the work they put in, given they handle things properly. If they finally do sell them individually at the price they state they will, then it will be a nice option for people with Nes hardware.
Having affordable options is always a good thing, never a bad one. Some people simply dont have LCDS capable of displaying composite signal all that well, and said people probably do not have iScan, XRGB, Extron, Kramer, or Faroudja upscalers. Many have no idea what those units even are.
This especially applies to Nintendo Snes and Nes collectors. Said people may not have access to a reliable CRT anymore either. There are many problems that can exist for someone, so it is nice to have multiple affordable solutions readily available.
Second, Per what Necro posted:
Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?
Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.
Did you even bother to read anyone else's post before jumping in to say 'f*ck teh haters!', and why are you so adamant that there's no middle ground?
The price could have been set at a point where he'd make the 'little' money nobody disagrees he deserves, but instead he chose to set up a cash grab, contributing to the collectard fueled price escalation of all things retro. Unlike yourself, some of us here actually give a shit about the community and would rather not see it overrun by people looking to make a buck, build on their 'investment', and fishing for virtual hand jobs over their latest unboxing video (see any facebook game group). That said, I see nothing much wrong with the proposed kit prices; I look at it like RGB mods on a Turbob - I don't see it being worth the cost, but it's a fine option for those that think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the investment.
Seems like before DK, James, PotatoCyborg, and RomMaster Zero jumped in on this trying to shut us up, all I and Arkhan, etc were basically saying was exactly that, along with me trying to pin Kev and Game-Tech down on some kind of warranty thing to take responsibility for the rushed untested nature of the auctioned launch, and to offer a complete sound comparison since a selling feature of this kit is supposedly the sound.
It seemed kind of implied that certain folks couldn't handle the heat as it were, and ran to Necro privately complaining. I don't know if that was actually the case, that people ran complaining, but it read off like it.
And given Necro's initial request for all that to halt, including repeat conversation regarding the high price debate stuff, it just seems odd seeing him regurgitate what me and Ark and others have already said prior here and elsewhere to Smoke, etc.
As for Kevtris, you said I was the only one with said concerns. You specifically expressed that of all the forums Game-Tech and yourself have been spamming or visiting, that only I have been expressing these concerns, implying I was lying or making shit up. Having to prove that wrong and lay into into you over that sucks, but it had to happen. Sometimes people have to be beaten over the head with the clue stick to get the point across.
I am the type too that if I detect a hint of egotistical BS being spouted off, I have no qualms about tearing that shit down like its November 89 and the Berlin Wall has to go. Kev, if you took that personally, I'm just like, meh, whatever. You took that risk coming in and accusing me of being the only one with concerns and skepticism. I showed you otherwise. I can shoot the shit with you on tech talk all day long, or I can sling shit at you all day long too. Its your call on how you want something like that to play out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The derailing flame war stuff was just adding spice and a mild distraction to the situation. Honestly to me it even lightened the mood some and created a few laughs, at Smoke and DK's expense, per usual, but seriously, who cares about these guys honestly? Since when does anyone here care that DK or Smokes feelings got hurt? Whoever did, you must be a better person then me, with some massive 100 percent forgiving, totally compromising, un-expecting heart.
Though honestly I cant recall myself actually getting downright vulgar and doing any major name calling at them or doing post overly laced with profanity in this latest flame war tidbit anyway. I think honestly prior to my mock She-Ra jabs at Smoke this thread was becoming a bit too serious in fact,
like it is again right now.
Life is too short for this kind of shit, and way too many people here are too overly sensitive. Its rather embarrassing considering how many here are supposedly mature guys in their 30ies who cant handle minor barbs and jabs inserted into retorts unless its in some magical designated Fighting Street area, or how many seem incapable of finding the irony in a situation, or being able to laugh this mess off, or even laugh at themselves.
Seriously, if I can handle James personally attacking my family multiple times and state, or rather insist myself he shouldn't be banned for the personal insult crap, then some of you can learn to grow some thick skin and a sense of humor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Anyway, back to the kit talk: One, the name of this kit has always kind of annoyed me to a degree. Its a catchy name, but woefully inaccurate. Hi-Def Nes is not really going to make the Nes Hi-Definition, nor is it even going to appear to be Extended Definition on screen. Most of us know this, but there are morons out there that don't. For those that don't, let me put it this way. The internal resolution of the Nes is always going to be what, 256x240? This kit is not going to be able to add extra detail to that.
Basically what you have is this: The upscaling hardware is doing a couple of things. First, deinterlacing the picture so that it can be processed. Second, using filters and algorithms to add lines and pixels so that the video signal sent to the TV can matches its desired HD resolution. If it did not do this you'd have a smaller image displayed on the screen surrounded by black borders. Basically it is enlarging the image and filling in the gaps with pixels/lines that it deems will properly match the already existing info being displayed, so there wont be any gaps in the image when it is enlarged.
Said advanced algorithms extensively analyze the signal/image being fed into it and then uses interpolation to create said extra pixels/lines. Again, you can't add extra detail that was never there. Outside of the end product being displayed being a little cleaner with less shimmer, all in all, its still just going to look like a cleaned up 256x240 Nes image (looking emulated at that from what the HI-Def Nes vids on youtube look like).
That is all there is to it. The benefit is you are making your system fully compatible on a 720p or 1080p screen, either cropped for proper 4:3, or forced to a widescreen aspect ratio because you're a noob that doesn't know anything about proper aspect ratios on old games. You might get a slightly clearer image compared to the composite out, depending on how well your LCD handles composite in, and reduced shimmer during screen movement. You may get some slightly brighter colors too, maybe. Depends on the hardware and the quality of the color pallets the kit is using.
But in the end, the actual Nes games will still not be in
Hi-Definition. Rygar is not suddenly going to have defined hair detail and decked out abs. You are not going to suddenly see fine blots of mold growing on blocks in the dungeons on The Legend of Zelda.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As for the sound. The sound is not really Hi-Definition either. Its hardware emulating older hardware that wasn't even of 16-bit sound quality @ 44.1 kHz mono or stereo. Sure the slight warm fuzz is missing, because the sound is cleaner, but its still not going to sound overly enhanced from the original. It can fake stereo, and it can emulate added chips, and get rid of the extremely minor noise/interference that was originally in the audio, the kind that only super human ears can usually detect.
Voice samples on games will not sudden sound like cd or dvd quality recorded samples being played back though. The bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds will still sound like bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds, though via emulation it may sound crisper/cleaner, but less warm and with less umph, sounding a tad fake.
But outside of that, its still going to sound like Nes. And I suspect it wont even sound as exact, due to emulation, and that is a deal killer for me. Emulation never sounds exactly like the original. They can get pretty close, but never exact. I don't care about overclocking Nes hardware, so having emulated sound is not a needed feature for someone like me.
For that matter, said noise/interference can be eliminated via good sound equipment and shielded cables. You don't need this kit to do that. What would have been cool would have been in addition a stripped down kit being offered that just focused on the visual side of things, so that an even cheaper kit could be sold.
As for fake stereo on Nes. I dont like it. Its not legit. Those sounds were never meant to be separated, and having clocked in thousands of hours of game time on the Nes, most of the time it just sounds odd hearing that fake stereo stuff.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the auction starting bid amount, it was irrelevant. It was a starting bid, not a BIN or the end bid amount. GT and Kev are not naive enough to have assumed it would have just only got one bid per system. A reasonable BIN price like $325-375 could have been set so the systems could have gone at a affordable rate and they could have made a reasonable profit still.
They knew though that a limited supply being posted via auction would attract high bids. Given there seems to be no set time frame for the release of the kits, the going rates for modded systems can be abused for however long that general unavailability of the kits last, as long as they don't overly flood the ebay market with system listings. Basically they are in a position to take advantage of Nes collector impatience, and they know it. The auctions will continue as long as they deem them necessary for high profits.
What is going to happen though is people not willing or able to afford to win another deck at such a high price will eventually get tired of waiting and jump on a cheaper solution. So if the idea of selling kits, instead of modded systems, is the end plan, then GT and Kev are shooting theirselves in the foot on the long term. Customers who got tired of waiting and went off and got NESRGB kits installed are not suddenly going to rip said kits out and buy HI-Def kits to replace them. The longer a normal kit launch is prolonged in favor of cash grab auctions, the worse the situation will be for the kits when it is time to sell them on their own.
And the other thing. People who won these modded systems paid way more then their worth. Nintendo collectors tend to not have very good gauges of what is worth what, similar to how some Neo collectors tend to be. So what you are going to end up with is a lot of people having the same mentality of KPJ/Neotropolis customers who try to resell his warez.
Customers like those of KPJ really think their consolized MVS 1-Slots in Pactec shells and AES systems are worth the $600-700 bucks they paid. When they end up with buyers remorse and try to resell these Game-Tech modded Nes decks and try to recoup their losses, whats going to happen is you're going to have systems sitting in sales threads and auction listings posted as "OMG RARE HDMI NES OMG f*ckIN RAREZ $700", sitting there and not selling because there is always going to be some slightly cheaper solution for sale somewhere. Said people are going to be made fun of, just like Neotropolis customers.
The initial buyers are going to end up jaded when they realized they over paid by about $300-400 on this regret buy, because their power to dictate the going rate has slowly been taken away from them. And in addition that there is $300-400 they will never ever get back, because GT and Kev kept slowly flooding the ebay market with auctions over time making their "OMG RARE $700 HDMI NES" not so rare, making the going rate eventually drop to $600, then $500, then $400, then $350, until finally Kev and Gt see that the auctions are no longer worth holding and it is now ideal to just sell the kits and be done with it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And to Kev and GT, bad news for you in case you were not aware. Paypal has extended their customer claim/return policy to 180 days. So if one of your auctioned systems stops working, the customer can get the funds freezed in your account on a return process and force a return if you do not do right by them. They don't have to use ebay for the return. Paypal will still have its own return process for them.
So again, a 6 month free service warranty would be ideal, as opposed to having to refund a few early $700 winning bidders whose systems might have gone bad between now and 6 months into the future. You wont be able to worm out of any Paypal claim by using the "Custom-made items" clause, because you sold a manufactured product, being the Nintendo manufactured Nes, with a added manufactured computer board. That clause only applies to things like custom made dolls, jewelry, crafts, etc.
As for the other mess, just meh, whatever. Still waiting for those sound comparison videos that will probably never be made. From a technical point of view I would love to see them, but as is it seems like Kevtris is reluctant or afraid to do them, similar to how him and GT seem reluctant or afraid to offer 6 month extended warranties on the auctioned systems. There is no way they spent 30-40 hours per each individual system testing it to make sure it and their launch batch of pcbs was rock solid.
They didn't do extensive industrial vibration test to make sure connections wouldn't be lost during shipping the systems, or that stress creep would not eventually occur (which to me would be an ideal test to perform given socketed chips seem to be involved). Nor did they do extended elevated-temperature fatigue test on these auctioned systems. I mean I can only assume that the kits add to the internal operating temperature of the systems.
Given the time frame from when they posted they received them, it just is not possible that responsible testing of the systems had occurred prior to auction. I don't like seeing people being used as high paying guinea pigs, but that is basically what this launch amounts to. So seriously, shame on you. SHAME. ON. YOU.
