Article about nostalgia is hurting games

[BigusSchmuck]

A good read:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/11/nostalgia-video-games/416751/

[seieienbu]

Definitely worth reading though I believe I disagree with the overall thesis of the piece.  With the rise of services like steam, PSN, XBLA indie games are having a ton of innovation in video games; I definitely feel that there is more to modern gaming than simply sequels and re-releases.  However, I'll definitely admit that this innovation just isn't happening in AAA titles. 

Probably my favorite part of this article is when it links to another piece about retro game resellers and how they suck. 

[BigusSchmuck]

Definitely worth reading though I believe I disagree with the overall thesis of the piece.  With the rise of services like steam, PSN, XBLA indie games are having a ton of innovation in video games; I definitely feel that there is more to modern gaming than simply sequels and re-releases.  However, I'll definitely admit that this innovation just isn't happening in AAA titles. 

Probably my favorite part of this article is when it links to another piece about retro game resellers and how they suck. 

If anything, it indicates we are heading towards a crash of some sort and the outcome could be that we will be seeing more and more mobile/tablet freemium games. :/ Not looking forward to that day.

[MNKyDeth]

I have a few games on my phone. Honestly, I played them for like 1-2 days and never played them since. Not sure why I even bothered to buy them now. It was something to do while I waited in a lobby or line someplace for a few minutes most likely.

Games on tablets and phones are trash. I have never played a good one yet. This is my opinion of course.

Re-releasing the same old games over and over like CoD and such it would be expected that the games industry has gone stagnant. And I agree it has. The only games that have come out in the last 10 years that I just had to have no matter what was/is the Souls games from FROM Software. Demons Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne.

RPG's are dead to me. I love the old school dungeon crawlers and such. Phantasy Star 1-4, Final Fantasy 1-6, Dungeon Explorer 1-2, The Lunar games, Dragon Slayer etc. I love this type of game as it tells a story.
I don't care about the grind if there is one as I just want that story.

At the same time I do not want to watch a game play itself like what was mentioned in the article, 1886 or something. I don't want to watch my games, I want to play them. Games like 1886, Until Dawn, The Last of Us imo are all trash. I cannot sit and watch my games, I must be able to play them.

Also, you cannot do a FPS game on a console with a controller. You must allow Keyboards and Mice for those games otherwise you lose an entire audience of PC gamers that would otherwise consider the console as a viable platform. Most PC gamers don't consider console's for any sort of games because of the lack of input they are allowed to have.

I grew up with consoles and PC's. I bought a PS3 for the Souls games, I bought a PS4 for the Souls games and Bloodborne. I do not and will not own any other games on these consoles because no other game interests me. On PC I buy games on steam like it's going out of style. I know I can use my KB + mouse or my gamepad and get the same experience if not better than any console out there currently.

As for Nostalgia, I really only care about my NEC gear. My Genesis and SegaCD I only care about the RPG's I have on them. When I want something that can challenge me and make me think I pull out the Duo and slap in a game and have some fun.

I don't even remember the point to this rant.... I just know if the gaming industry wants to make more money they better just listen to their customers instead of the pocketbook. meh...

[Necromancer]

I don't buy in to the 'stagnant' argument.  They're just franchises, so of course they're going to be essentially the same game over and over with slight changes to game items, graphics upgrades, etc.  If anything, I wish there was more 'stagnant' games that stuck to their original formulas (not 3D reboots that play nothing like 'em), like say new Bonk, Bomberman, or Dungeon Explorer games.

[Jibbajaba]

I feel like that article places the blame for the stagnation of top-tier games on us instead of on the risk-averse game publishers who choose to go for the low-hanging fruit.  It also fails to mention (unless I missed it) that these publishers tend to be risk-averse because the budget required to product a triple-A title is orders of magnitude higher than it was in the 8 and 16-bit eras.  The flop of a big-budget game is enough of a financial hit to put out of business all but the biggest of the big game publishers.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, this article is stupid. The reason why you get the same shit every year is because there is nobody more obsessed with holding onto their money than people who already have have absolute assloads of it. The Man does not take risk, and now that NEC, Hudson, Sega, Technos, Rayforce, Texhnos, NCS/Masiya, Konami, etc are all gone, who do we look too? The inventors of Windows ME and some idiots who can't profit from TVs in a world where sitting in front of one is the most popular past time.

I would argue that Mario is probably doing everything Nintendo needs him to do. He not only fights bowser but plays tennis, soccer, all Olympic sports, and is an accomplished kart racer in addition to all the other stuff he has done. He can totally mix martial art you as well. He's just a brand identifier, mainly. Sure, you get the EXACT same shit once in a while (Smash, Mario Party) but most Nintendo games are extremely well made and give tremendous value. Just because Mario is in it doesn't mean you are buying the same thing you did last time. Galaxy, 3D World, New and Maker represent a pretty broad spectrum of things to do, even those are ostensibly the "Mario" games. However, the sad thing is that it feels like Nintendo is the only real "Japanese developer" left, and even they have to make uncomfortable changes to adapt (like putting out almost nothing but sequels, as broad in scope as they are).

Games with marines in them can go f*ck a duck though. I don't care if it's full on 40k madness or just some semper fi jackoff. I'm sick of all of them. Anything with a gun in it that actually exists in real life pretty much falls into this catagory as well. These are the games that most "target" customers play and therefore what is determined to be a smart investment for billion dollar companies. Same with monthly $200B super hero movies and stupid little SUVs that are inferior in almost every way to the compacts they are based on. Badly made Bluetooth speakers that sell for hundreds of dollars fly off the shelves while the traditional "stereo" is basically extinct.

Rich people want to take money from stupid people. That's how you get things like Call of Duty: Total Failure of the Human Sprit 3: The Darkening, or three Spiderman reboots in a decade or the Ford Escape. Mop heads with patent protected proprietary attachment mechanisms when the centuries old version works better. It's all the same thing. What's changed though is that the margins just keep getting thinner as prices continue to drop. This can't go on forever.

We are headed to a video game crash for sure. That much I agree with. Much of a crash has already happened, it began when Sega left consoles 15 years ago, but won't be referred to as such until we are more into it. Konami quitting games was the next big part of it. Of the three console makers, only one actually makes money at it. In the next couple of years either MS or Sony will do something drastic to try and improve that, or maybe Nintendo will go platform agnostic, and then it will be all over with video games as old timers like us knew them.

I can't wait. Because what comes after that has a really good chance of being AWESOME even though I don't know what it is. I'm hoping solar powered 32-bit Gameboy clones marketed under the Dendy name. That's my real hope. Eastern Europe, Russia, South America. It will probably be a Chinese speaking region, but I can hope. Regardless, a "crash" works pretty well for gamers so nobody has to be worried unless you are so SOL in life that you are actually employed in this industry. The last games crash pretty much invented the console as we know it (Made in Japan, no fake wood, games that are actually fun). Change is good.

[Jibbajaba]

Yeah, this article is stupid. The reason why you get the same shit every year is because there is nobody more obsessed with holding onto their money than people who already have have absolute assloads of it. The Man does not take risk, and now that NEC, Hudson, Sega, Technos, Rayforce, Texhnos, NCS/Masiya, Konami, etc are all gone, who do we look too? The inventors of Windows ME and some idiots who can't profit from TVs in a world where sitting in front of one is the most popular past time.

I would argue that Mario is probably doing everything Nintendo needs him to do. He not only fights bowser but plays tennis, soccer, all Olympic sports, and is an accomplished kart racer in addition to all the other stuff he has done. He can totally mix martial art you as well. He's just a brand identifier, mainly. Sure, you get the EXACT same shit once in a while (Smash, Mario Party) but most Nintendo games are extremely well made and give tremendous value. Just because Mario is in it doesn't mean you are buying the same thing you did last time. Galaxy, 3D World, New and Maker represent a pretty broad spectrum of things to do, even those are ostensibly the "Mario" games. However, the sad thing is that it feels like Nintendo is the only real "Japanese developer" left, and even they have to make uncomfortable changes to adapt (like putting out almost nothing but sequels, as broad in scope as they are).

Games with marines in them can go f*ck a duck though. I don't care if it's full on 40k madness or just some semper fi jackoff. I'm sick of all of them. Anything with a gun in it that actually exists in real life pretty much falls into this catagory as well. These are the games that most "target" customers play and therefore what is determined to be a smart investment for billion dollar companies. Same with monthly $200B super hero movies and stupid little SUVs that are inferior in almost every way to the compacts they are based on. Badly made Bluetooth speakers that sell for hundreds of dollars fly off the shelves while the traditional "stereo" is basically extinct.

Rich people want to take money from stupid people. That's how you get things like Call of Duty: Total Failure of the Human Sprit 3: The Darkening, or three Spiderman reboots in a decade or the Ford Escape. Mop heads with patent protected proprietary attachment mechanisms when the centuries old version works better. It's all the same thing. What's changed though is that the margins just keep getting thinner as prices continue to drop. This can't go on forever.

We are headed to a video game crash for sure. That much I agree with. Much of a crash has already happened, it began when Sega left consoles 15 years ago, but won't be referred to as such until we are more into it. Konami quitting games was the next big part of it. Of the three console makers, only one actually makes money at it. In the next couple of years either MS or Sony will do something drastic to try and improve that, or maybe Nintendo will go platform agnostic, and then it will be all over with video games as old timers like us knew them.

I can't wait. Because what comes after that has a really good chance of being AWESOME even though I don't know what it is. I'm hoping solar powered 32-bit Gameboy clones marketed under the Dendy name. That's my real hope. Eastern Europe, Russia, South America. It will probably be a Chinese speaking region, but I can hope. Regardless, a "crash" works pretty well for gamers so nobody has to be worried unless you are so SOL in life that you are actually employed in this industry. The last games crash pretty much invented the console as we know it (Made in Japan, no fake wood, games that are actually fun). Change is good.

Will you marry me?  No homo.

[SignOfZeta]

Yes.

[esteban]

This thread was quite fun to read.

I agree that the article is fundamentally flawed...but who cares? Pcefx remedied this minor inconvenience.


Update: So, I feel that (1) the role of nostalgia and (2) the "social" component of gaming are still interesting areas to explore, especially in terms of (1) the pop culture we consume (2) how a person experiences a game/gaming experience.

We would be better served, I think, with a different article that explores "nostalgia" and "social" as the starting point.

I grabbed three quotes that might stimulate some discussion here:

(1) It doesn’t matter if the games have aged terribly, because we’re less interested in the gaming experience than we are in recreating the memories associated with them.

(2) Players aren’t remembering the time they watched a hero defeat a bad guy (as in a movie)—they’re remembering the time they beat the bad guy.

(3) Jamie Madigan, who’s written extensively on the psychology of video games, points out that nostalgia tends to be at its strongest when people are reminiscing about socializing. Gaming has always had a communal component to it, and it’s only more so now, with the rise of “Let’s Play” videos on YouTube.

(1) I am not denying that there isn't some truth to #1...this is the textbook criticism of how nostalgia can lead people to be less objective when critiquing a game, or discussing its merits/flaws. It is very easy to accuse someone of being biased/subjective due to "nostalgia"...whether or not the accusation is warranted.

(2) This is simply an example #1

(3) This is interesting to me because it represents the intersection of nostalgia and social life....and I am completely SPLIT on this topic:

(3A) I might be in the minority, but a ridiculous amount of playing video games was/is a completely solitary experience for me.  Like reading a great novel. I also watch movies alone. And I listen to albums alone, too. I just love to eliminate  distractions and have a pure, 100% unadulterated experience.

Thus, my strongest sense of "nostalgia" (to the extent I even experience it, which is debatable) is firmly rooted in solitary gaming experiences.

(3B) Of course, I was fortunate to have brothers and friends, so some of my fondest memories are playing games with them, too. But, I have a hard time believing that my nostalgia, to the extent I even experience it, is more strongly rooted in these "social" moments (all participants actively engaging each other).

(3C) I never wanted to watch other folks play, BITD. I would have preferred to be *playing*. I was "forced" to watch others because I was waiting my turn/had no money (at the arcade). Similarly, I had to wait my turn with consoles... These were technically "social" but far more *passive* than (3B).

I HAVE RATELY HAD EVEN A FLEETING FEELING OF NOSTALGIA FOR THE TIMES SHEN I WAS FORCED TO PASSIVELY WATCH SOMEONE ELSE PLAY A GAME AT THE ARCADE/home console. 

(3D) Given my thoughts in (3C), please explain the "social" aspect of Let's Play videos. The author assumes it is obvious, but I honestly am not sure what he is suggesting.

[Necromancer]

Yarr.  Unless you're watching them with friends, I don't get how watching a youtube video is even remotely social.

I have fond memories of gaming with friends, but I spent way more time playing by myself.  Both can be enjoyable, and certain types of games (like rpgs) don't work well in multiple players, unlike shewties or platformers where you can trade off on levels, do score challenges, etc. even if it's only a one player game.

[Gentlegamer]

I'm late to the thread, how to I send Zeta 100000000000 Turbo Karma?

[esteban]

I'm late to the thread, how to I send Zeta 100000000000 Turbo Karma?

Acquire Deuce Bigalow: Director's Cut on LaserDisc and send it to him. Throw in some Attack on Titan 2015 desktop calendars as icing on the cake.

[SignOfZeta]

One of the best things about Laserdisc is that no Deuce Bigalow movie was ever released in the format.

[esteban]

One of the best things about Laserdisc is that no Deuce Bigalow movie was ever released in the format.

Hahahhahahajja.