FX-Unit Yuki: The Henshin Engine for TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine

[nodtveidt]

psgOn() allows you to set either vsync or timer as its argument. I have only ever used the timer argument, as the example file states that using vsync limits the speed.

[TheOldMan]

Take a look at the HuC scroll function some time.  If I remember right, it doesn't run on VSync, it runs on HSync. And I seem to remember it sorting the scroll areas on every call.

I could be wrong, though. It's been a while.

[nodtveidt]

I am pretty sure you're right on that one.

[Arkhan]

It uses Mega-CD's soundchip

What?

also, you don't need to just use "90s synths", as games back then also used studio rock bands.

Unless you think I'd need to go buy strictly 1980s musical gear to record a studio rock soundtrack for a game, in order for it to be authentic?

Also, anyone who says they'd be able to tell the difference between most of that stuff is probably lying.

Also, the Henshin Engine soundtrack isn't chiptunes.

It's "chiptunes".

It's that stuff people started doing recently that sounds chip inspired but is full of all kinds of non-chip things.

EDIT:

I love using Squirrel, but I found that it causes some issues with straight-up HuC. Whenever I would use it for music playback in a program that makes use of multiple scroll() regions, it would introduce a lot of flicker issues. I am not sure if this is a CPU load issue or just a "gimme all teh timer!" thing but because of it, I don't use it for any kind of action game unless I am only planning to use a single scroll(). For RPGs that don't go too crazy with the graphical effects, it's great... in fact, Mysterious Song II uses Squirrel for its PSG effects playback. You simply couldn't ask for a more robust sound system in this case. Henshin Engine, on the other hand, would have numerous issues if I used it, so instead, I use a heavily modified version of Bt Garner's snd.c, which is a lot less demanding, though obviously a lot less feature-packed than Squirrel. I cannot recommend Squirrel enough to anyone making a hucard game, as there is literally nothing better and it does a great job in most circumstances.

Try using VSYNC.  The only problem is, if your game is slowing down, the audio is going to slow down too.  I believe that's what the example means.  I'd have to look again because it's been awhile.

and yeah, the scrolls use HSYNC, not VSYNC.



but, I am using the timer mode for Atlantean, with more scrolling regions than your game, so I am curious what flickering you are experiencing.

[nodtveidt]

but, I am using the timer mode for Atlantean, with more scrolling regions than your game, so I am curious what flickering you are experiencing.

I don't do hucard productions very often, but when I do, I use Squirrel for all the audio. My first test was a simple two-region parallax that didn't do any kind of map loading, VRAM uploading, or any of the other fancy-pants tricks I use a lot. While playing the music, the lower part of the screen would flicker all over the place, often disappearing completely. Sometimes it would be drawn too high and sometimes drawn too low. The top part never flinched though. (My intention was to make a "garbage storm" game, like China Warrior or Gladiator... ) My second test was a full-on four-region scroll with map loading, lots of VRAM uploading, and multiple sound effects being played on command. The background was flicker city up and down. Keep in mind though that this was pure HuC, no assembly used on my end. I reasonably concluded that there must have been something in Squirrel that is in conflict with HuC's scroll() timing. So from then on, I never used more than one scroll() region at a time when using Squirrel. When I was working on Sydney Hunter, it didn't use any horizontal scrolling at all, so it wasn't an issue.

[Arkhan]

That's odd, because Pyramid Plunder has 2 scroll regions and VRAM updating for the radar, but it uses chiptunes and works fine.

What does your code look like?   It shouldn't interrupt things like that.

[Dr.Wily]

Redbook allows for any "feeling" you want. It "just" allows for the best possible music, and that's all I care about and what MOST care about...

As I told, redbook has no feeling. It's just a medium to put what you want on it. There no best possible music. Redbook is not better than PSG, it's just another way to play music for video game.

PSG can't reproduce real instruments, but it has his own feeling. Redbook have it's cons too. Music looping problem, it take full CD drive access and your are unable to load data during playback. Each loading shutdown the music...

Like Bonknuts said "these new development tools aren't geared towards practical music solutions for homebrew or just game development in general"

Or Gredler "Elaborate chiptunes are particularly difficult to do still, but there are also very few people available who can make them with the existing tools."

These is valid points. Making chiptune is dificult thing, I understand that. But do not tell me that the redbook audio is the best way to "make" music on PC-Engine, this totally wrong. Redbook has been dropped even on platforms who used a lot, like Mega-CD or Saturn. The streaming took place over impractical redbook.

I'm not interested in lost causes like purposefully grinding down great music to the blips and beeps of chiptune standards for the sake of capturing the "retroness" of carts or HuCards, etc. It's a CD game and will take full advantage of CD standards, including Redbook audio tracks.

You not grinding down the music when you start to develop on chip directly. I do not speak about possible conversion from redbook to PSG. But make the BGM directly from PSG and use the pro and cons of the chip. ANd you can also use redbook too. One does not prevent the other.

Whatever floats your boat though. The composer and developer are likely not interested in ruining their music, so there's your simple answer. You think Ryo Yonemitsu would've appreciated great Ys tracks like "The Boy Who Had Wings" getting grinded down to PSG style ? I doubt it...

Nonsense ! First, if it's too tricky to develop sound engine to play music through PC-Engine audio processor, the best way still the redbook. Second, PSG does not ruin music if your whole composition is dedicated for it. Your example with Ryo Yonemitsu is not valid, YS use both PSG and redbook. Redbook is used because it offers a good deal at a time where sound synthesis rules the vidéo game music.

Oh noooo, what a crime! Heh. The trade-off is the user will get the best possible music the human ear can process, but less challenge for the hardware...  So the "problem" is what exactly ?? ...

Ok ok... for you the same tune is better on CD than PSG... so the same tune is better on DVD than CD ? And better on bluray than DVD... hummm, and it's me that passionately argue over in a senseless argumentative fashion... 

Dr Wily, when people reference things like "HuC", the point they're making is that homebrew PC Engine development is very challenging and the dev kits licensed developers used bitd are unavailable. Elaborate chiptunes are particularly difficult to do still, but there are also very few people available who can make them with the existing tools.

Good point ! I prefer this argument that approaches the truth.

What?

also, you don't need to just use "90s synths", as games back then also used studio rock bands.

Unless you think I'd need to go buy strictly 1980s musical gear to record a studio rock soundtrack for a game, in order for it to be authentic?

You don't understand. When I told about "90s synths" this was in response to :

"To me, Redbook audio is what captures the true feel of a Turbo/PC Engine CDROM game"

The redbook captures nothing. The real true feel of a PC Engine CDROM game came from japanese video game music style of this time. The vast majority of PC-Engine CD soundtracks are made from typical synth sound from nineties. THIS is the feeling of PC-Engine CD BGM not redbook. Redbook is just a "container".

Also, the Henshin Engine soundtrack isn't chiptunes.

It's "chiptunes".

It's that stuff people started doing recently that sounds chip inspired but is full of all kinds of non-chip things.

It's an ersatz. You can make food with chemical components or you can make it with natural products. Same thing for chiptune.

[nodtveidt]

Dr.Wily, you are literally making a mountain out of a molehill here. This is just crazy. You have your opinion, others have theirs. We all get it. Sarumaru designed this game to be the way it is for his own reasons.

[nodtveidt]

What does your code look like?   It shouldn't interrupt things like that.

I'll dig up some code for ya, maybe you know something I don't (wouldn't be the first time, me is le dumbsauce).

EDIT: relevant code:

Code: [Select]

for(;;)
{
psgMainStatus = psgMStat();
psgSubStatus  = psgSStat();
j1 = joy(0);
j2 = joytrg(0);
princess_state_machine();
princess_animation();
update_scroll();
put_number(scrollspeed,2,16,0);
satb_update();
vsync();
}
and

Code: [Select]

update_scroll()
{
if (scrolldirection == 1)
{
if (scrollspeed < 40) scrollspeed++;
} else {
if (scrollspeed > 0) scrollspeed-=2;
}
scroll1tics+= scrollspeed;
scroll2tics+=scrollspeed*2;
if (scroll1tics > 79)
{
scroll1tics -= 80;
scroll1++;
if (scroll1 > 511) scroll1 -= 512;
}
if (scroll2tics > 79)
{
scroll2tics -= 80;
scroll2++;
if (scroll2 > 511) scroll2 -= 512;
}
if (scrollspeed < 1) return; /* no need to update 0 movement */
scroll(1, scroll1, 16, 16, 175, 0xC0);
scroll(2, scroll2, 176, 176, 223, 0xC0);
}
and actually, I was wrong... this particular game engine was using VRAM uploading. I have not worked on this in like... 2 years... so I will see what happens if I remove said load_vram() functions and rebuild.

[NightWolve]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sarumaru/henshin-engine-the-game-pc-engine-tg-16-pc-steam

Looking great!

Up to 450 backers, over $30k, one day to go.

Let's collectively refrain from responding to the "anomaly" above until the Kickstarter is over... Just one more day for this to be wrapped up.

[Sarumaru]

For a game who's soundtrack consists of this "no feeling" redbook audio, the music in it sure gets a lot of attention 

It also appeals to the masses and not just hardware purists. That can be seen as a marketable option for going red book.

But the real reason? I simply wanted it that way. When the Turbografx CD first came out, my draw to it was the limitless capabilities of CD audio over chiptunes, something no other system had done at the time. Many like that gritty sound that chiptunes have, and much of it is very good, it's just not what I wanted. ^__^

[Arkhan]

I think Dr. Wily is hung up on vernacular.

redbook has come to basically just mean "CD audio" or "real instruments".

Rover: What does all of your other code do?  If those state machine/etc. functions are too slow, that's probably part of the problem.

[SkyeWelse]

Just wanted to drop in and say good luck with the game! I just backed it for a physical Turbo disc. Just in time too seeing as it's in the final hours of the Kickstarter.

I really like the concept of the game having the main protagonist represent NEC and the antagonist / rival represent Sega. That will be a lot of fun to see how that story plays out.

I came up with a similar concept for a game I wanted to work on for MSX one day, but life got in the way. It was going to be a Mega Man style game for MSX 2+ called naturally, MSX Man. But instead of robot masters, they would be Computer Masters and it was MSX Man's mission after being created by a "pair" of doctors, Dr. Nishi and Dr. Gates, to show them all who was boss. He was going to fight against Atari Man, Commodore Man, NEC (PC-88) Man, Spectrum Man, BBC Man, and others ultimately getting upgrades to make the MSX Man the most powerful 8-bit machine ever built. This would of course parody the actual MSX history some having Dr. Gates go on to "Do his own thing" and you'd have to fight him and his computer robot armies in a Windows fortress before he could give full power and support to... dun dun dun, the International Business Machine, which would be MSX Man's final boss. MSX Man ultimately cannot win against IBM's power, but MSX Man is later found years later and resurrected to live on and fight for "Great Justice!"

-Thomas

[NightWolve]

Tom!!!!!!!! Hey buddy! Good of you to join us, thanks!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sarumaru/henshin-engine-the-game-pc-engine-tg-16-pc-steam

Over $31k, 460 backers strong, 20 hours left!!

[nodtveidt]

That storyline actually sounds pretty badass.