What was the most popular non-Nintendo and non-Sony console in Japan?

[sanjo]

I am guessing it would either be the Sega Saturn or the PC-Engine and its add ons.
However looking at wikipedia, I was surprised Sega Saturn sales in japan were only 5 million (slightly below the N64) and quite a bit below the PC-Engine (I think 8 million).

But this 5 million figure seems to stem from a late 90s magazine article, which I think may not be the best time to measure total sales as I'm sure the saturn was still being sold (but in its declining phase) by then. Are there any other updated figures?

In the game stores here in Japan, as far as second hand goes, it does seem there's quite a bit more used Saturn games to be found than PC-Engine.

[SamIAm]

The English Wikipedia article has incorrect information about PC Engine sales figures. We had a big dumb thread about it.

Multiple Japanese sources during and after the PCE's life corroborate that there were 3.92 million Hucard systems sold in Japan, plus roughly one million Duos and one million CD attachments (1.92 million combined).

We also have it from the horse's mouth that the TG-16 only sold around 750k units outside of Japan and CD/Duo system sales were all but negligible.

Altogether, it makes for 5.8 million independently playable systems sold worldwide.

Sega Saturn sales were, according to the Japanese Wikipedia article, exactly 5.8 million in Japan alone.

If you're curious, the original Xbox sold only 500k, and the 360 sold ~1.6 million.

If you're willing to expand into the PC world a little, the MSX at 4 million and PC-88/98 systems at (who-knows) are serious contenders.

[sanjo]

The English Wikipedia article has incorrect information about PC Engine sales figures. We had a big dumb thread about it.

Multiple Japanese sources during and after the PCE's life corroborate that there were 3.92 million Hucard systems sold in Japan, plus roughly one million Duos and one million CD attachments (1.92 million combined).

We also have it from the horse's mouth that the TG-16 only sold around 750k units outside of Japan and CD/Duo system sales were all but negligible.

Altogether, it makes for 5.8 million independently playable systems sold worldwide.

Sega Saturn sales were, according to the Japanese Wikipedia article, exactly 5.8 million in Japan alone.

If you're curious, the original Xbox sold only 500k, and the 360 sold ~1.6 million.

If you're willing to expand into the PC world a little, the MSX at 4 million and PC-88/98 systems at (who-knows) are serious contenders.

thanks! that would mean the most popular non nintendo and sony console in Japan is virtually a tie between the PCE and the Saturn.

I was also surprised to learn about the hu-card vs cd sale. I had always imagine the cd system being very close to the hu-card in total sales since it was so popular.

Also means the Megadrive (at 4.3  million in Japan) was just 1 million units behind, rather than half.

[SamIAm]

You have to look at more than just total sales, though.

The Saturn is certainly well-known in Japan. Everyone and their grandma has tried Virtua Fighter 2 on one, and Sega put out so many TV commercials that non-gamers will surprise you with the titles they remember. I'd bet that Saturn software sales beat PCE software sales by a wide margin. OTOH, however, it was also in constant competition with the Playstation. Even at its best, like in 1995 when it was supposedly ahead, the Saturn was never really the undisputed King.

It's hard to say that the PCE was ever King, either, but it did have a couple of years to enjoy its own sort of dominance thanks to the way it straddled generations. Before the Super Famicom came out in December of 1990, console gamers had a choice between the popular but decrepit Famicom, the green and struggling Mega Drive, or the spunky and successful PCE. For a good year or two, it was the cool new system to have.

The release of the Super Famicom killed Hucard sales, and the success of the Genesis in North America helped the Mega Drive rise in later years. During that time, the PCE had little choice but to become a niche system. However, even then, it had its own kind of strength: the CD system was by-far the dominant CD game format in Japan throughout the early 90s. The Mega CD, which apparently sold only 400k units, and other weird systems like the FM Towns Marty, really didn't hold a candle to it.

[elmer]

However, even then, it had its own kind of strength: the CD system was by-far the dominant CD game format in Japan throughout the early 90s. The Mega CD, which apparently sold only 400k units, and other weird systems like the FM Towns Marty, really didn't hold a candle to it.

And, if nothing else, this is the PCE's legacy for me (and I believe, for history).

It was the very first console that introduced the idea of almost-unrestricted amounts of memory, and real voice and real-hi-fi-quality music to gaming.

It shifted computer games from "you load a level from tape in 2 or minutes", to you can load a level in a few seconds, and *then* play real audio or music.

It shifted console games from "you load a level in less-than-a-second from cartridge, but you can't afford to store too much sound", to you can load a level in a few seconds, and *then* play real audio or music.

The CD-ROM was like a "cartridge-without-limits".

It changed the industry ... and Hudson/NEC were the first.

[SignOfZeta]

Gah, this *obsession* with sales figures and "wining" against something. It's isnane. It doesn't matter. Quit it.

As for cultural influence I'd say PCE. The Saturn was great and all but I feel the PCE had a larger and more significant impact. In 2016 I don't think there's much influence left from either.

[sanjo]

Gah, this *obsession* with sales figures and "wining" against something. It's isnane. It doesn't matter. Quit it.

As for cultural influence I'd say PCE. The Saturn was great and all but I feel the PCE had a larger and more significant impact. In 2016 I don't think there's much influence left from either.

cultural influence was another thing I'm most interested in too.
I've been living in Japan for several years now, but was not here in the early 90s to directly experience the 16 bit era (my favorite era of gaming).  A lot of the people I know are too young (most began in the 32 bit era), or not gamer enough (tons of people had a super famicom.. but were casual gamers. I even received a free super famicom from a model who played it in her childhood, but all she had were sailor moon games that she couldn't beat).

looking on the internet I found several fun stuff (all in Japanese)
and it seems there was a PCE vs MD rivalry for (which was the best 2nd system to own).


I don't know which magazine it is from, but it seems to be from a decade ago. (scroll to the right)

Summary:
PCE associated with otaku types who love anime, games involving young girl characters, slippers held together by tape, etc. the Sega guy was an apple guy, tech freak, and a bunch of old era terms that I don't know (like TAR, etc)

another was this blog from a retro girl gaming idol


http://blog.livedoor.jp/tokyozukananno/archives/50953144.html
and
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tokyozukananno/archives/50955181.html

basically she summarized
image of MD: black, looks large and bulky but is actually light, American, profound.
she had good experiences with Gunstar Heroes, The super Shinobi, splatter house series, silky lip (never played this, is it good?)

image of PCE: cute and small, light and easy to move, definitely feels like a Japanese machine
she liked wondermomo, galaga, among many others. the feed back in the comment section is also full of nostalgia

[Otaking]

From looking at a wide selection of Japanese games magazines through the era and speaking to various Japanese people at the time and also travelling to Japan, I have always been under the impression that the PC Engine was generally a lot more popular than the Sega home consoles. I distinctly remember the amount of deicated shelf space in game stores in Japan was a lot less for anything Sega.
Sega was huge in the arcades over there but for some reason I got the impression they never got big into their Sega home consoles.

[xelement5x]

I have no numbers, but it feels like the Saturn hardware is still pretty cheap in Japan for the most part compared to PCE.  I bought a large number of Saturns from Japan in bulk and they were much cheaper than anything comparable for PCE.