PCE Pixel art tools?

[Arkhan]

I recommend GraphicsGale. It became freeware last month too. It looks old on the surface but it's frequently updated and they even implemented a feature five days after I reqested it last year.

The main reason I like it is due to how the line tool and right-click works. They both sped up my work by quite a lot compared to other software. It also has convenient features for animation.

https://graphicsgale.com/us/

but it doesn't support PCX !

tbh it's not too hard to stick to specific colors, then use gimp to flip and order it.

The fact that you have to use a completely separate (large) paint program to invert a palette that wasn't supposed to be inverted is moronic.

Everytime I have to do it, I want to punch someone in the tip.

[Gredler]

Impossible to argue. I wonder why Photoshop palette tool isn't easier to limit and export color tables better.

It works great for millions of colors, but for 16 it chokes hahah

The pros outweigh the cons IMO, the inconvenience of gimp conversion is minimal compared to the tools I am able to use while working on the actual art. I am reliant on a lot of Photoshop great workflow enhancers like smart objects, simple and flexible layer system, animation, batch process, action macro system, saved brushes patterns and shapes, etc. I could go on and on about the things I can do in Photoshop but can't in gimp or grafx2 (likely due to lack of knowledge on my part not shortcoming in prpgrams.)

I have still not used PSP, but last night I spent a good hour with promotion, and I can right away see it's benefits for tile map generation. I am going to stick with it a bit and see what results I can crank out with it.


After watching some brief tutorials today it de-mystifies so much about promotion, excited to get back into it soon.


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL248E09782C9AE85D

[elmer]

but it doesn't support PCX !

Is there any particular problem with that? 

Or is it just that PCEAS only comes with PCX support built in (which I really should fix)?

tbh it's not too hard to stick to specific colors, then use gimp to flip and order it.

The fact that you have to use a completely separate (large) paint program to invert a palette that wasn't supposed to be inverted is moronic.

Yeah ... I can't abide the way that PhotoShop screws with palettes.

IMHO, on these 8-bit & 16-bit systems, palettes are sacrosanct, and the tools should never automatically mess with them.

But ... I'm not an artist, and if you really want to use Photoshop then the palettes can always be remapped, at least for simple 16-color images like sprites.

But when you're working with multiple 16-color palettes (used on tile boundaries) within a single 256-color image ... then having the art-tool messing with the palette is grounds for war!

[Black Tiger]

Misc tools may be good for organizing things to implement after the actual pixelart is complete, but I don't think that anything is better overall for actually making the pixelart than photoshop.

Telegraphics' Count Colors filter is a must-have and let's you quickly measure the dimensions and number of colors of a selected area.

I use lots of layers for everything I'm working on and like having various revisions of pixelart and palettes of an element, while also being able to quickly see it mixed with other elements as it will be in-game and then isolate it again. I use a tablet pen less than ever now, but the way I can quickly trace an outline over a scan of a rough drawing or just free draw the rough shape and work around it in layers is priceless.

If you only do one type of pixelart or just simple stuff, something else might be better. But I doubt that photoshop can be beat for doing any kind and every level of detail/variety/etc, with PC Engine as the end target.

[Arkhan]

but it doesn't support PCX !

Is there any particular problem with that? 

Or is it just that PCEAS only comes with PCX support built in (which I really should fix)?

It's mostly that I am used to using them, and have been using that format since forever, in addition to utilities all floating around that use PCX.   It was coincidence that PCE also used PCX.  A nice one, though.   It's not a bad file format.

We had PC Paintbrush way-back-when.  I actually used that in DOSBox for awhile when I was doing Insanity.   When we got Windows 95, we got Paint Shop Pro, and it's never really done me wrong.

GraphicsGale, and Pixia, are both pretty nice pixel art programs, though.   

Since I don't actually do art though, I like NeoPaint and PSP.   They have better tooling/image fiddling features, and that's what I tend to need.    All that other layering/brush doodling stuff doesn't matter to me because it's like sitting a chimp down at a 300,000$ grand piano.   

Shit's gonna suck anyways.

Yeah ... I can't abide the way that PhotoShop screws with palettes.

IMHO, on these 8-bit & 16-bit systems, palettes are sacrosanct, and the tools should never automatically mess with them.

But ... I'm not an artist, and if you really want to use Photoshop then the palettes can always be remapped, at least for simple 16-color images like sprites.

But when you're working with multiple 16-color palettes (used on tile boundaries) within a single 256-color image ... then having the art-tool messing with the palette is grounds for war!

Why doesn't Photoshop, being such a popular, powerful "industry standard" program have a way to invert the palette?  GIMP has it.    I am aware and agree that PS is a powerful program and has all kinds of confusing nonsense to make art do things of the art variety, I just don't get why it does something so lame to palettes.   

Granted, PSP doesn't have a button to fix it either, it... also doesn't f*ck with your palette, so it's a bit of a not-necessary feature for the program.

Having the palette get f*cked around with is completely balls when trying to deal with a PCX that has 6 palettes in it, for reasons just mentioned.   

I had a utility I made years ago to invert the palette instead of having to fire up gimp, but I think I accidentally deleted it and can't find source.   Maybe I will rewrite it and call it f*ckYouAdobe.exe

I actually hate trying to use GIMP quite a bit though.  the interface fits the name of the program for sure.

[Gredler]

Why doesn't Photoshop, being such a popular, powerful "industry standard" program have a way to invert the palette?  GIMP has it.    I am aware and agree that PS is a powerful program and has all kinds of confusing nonsense to make art do things of the art variety, I just don't get why it does something so lame to palettes.   

Ultimately Photoshop is a photo editing program at heart, and it's main concern is more colors - not less. I agree that it would be great if they spent a bit of time making some features for pixel artists contrained by limited palettes. We are too minute of a group for it to be a feature worth approaching I suppose. They're worried about getting HDR tools for modern millions of colors functionality, not 16 color functionality.

There ARE ways to get proper photoshop PCX files to export - it's just way more work than it's worth in a actual art production pipeline. Long story short it involves creating palette files and applying them as cluts and use the palette manager to organize it - and I bet there are further options but I've not spent the time digging since I always get cabin-fever and want to just make art. It's possible, just a guessing game and a shitty workflow that's not worth its trouble when you can just toss it into gimp and adjust the actual palette. (save for web as gif is a simple shitty way to do it, etc)

I had a utility I made years ago to invert the palette instead of having to fire up gimp, but I think I accidentally deleted it and can't find source.   Maybe I will rewrite it and call it f*ckYouAdobe.exe

I actually hate trying to use GIMP quite a bit though.  the interface fits the name of the program for sure.

Last night saving out some shit for DK I was thinking I should write a script to do it, but then though shit I almost always organize the palette manually not just reverse it.

I prefer to chunk it by color, going from dark to lightest each for easier tracking when swapping or animating colors in the palettes

But I doubt that photoshop can be beat for doing any kind and every level of detail/variety/etc, with PC Engine as the end target.

This is what I keep thinking, IS there something better? After a night with promotion, I have to say I feel a bit more open minded. If you have not checked it out, I would say its worth a looksie.

[Arkhan]

The thing is, PS doesn't need to "add features"

they need to do the one feature right.   It's a bug.   

This would impact a 256 color pcx just the same.  It inverts the entire palette and is wrong. 

[Gredler]

The thing is, PS doesn't need to "add features"

they need to do the one feature right.   It's a bug.   

This would impact a 256 color pcx just the same.  It inverts the entire palette and is wrong. 

I agree, the functionality you're talking about could be a bug and regardless if it's a bug or not should be changed/fixed.

I do think though they could add a feature to make this all moot and fine, palette management either in the index color conversion process or color table window which is accurate to palette assignment

[Siskan]

but it doesn't support PCX !

That's true but I just port it through another editor once I'm done with it. If I save hours on using GG I can spend a minute on converting to PCX.

[Gredler]

Pro Motion Official Tutorials are really helpful as well, I will walk through these with the program up when I get home, everything explained well!


http://www.cosmigo.com/pixel_animation_software/learn/videos

I highly suggest checking this program out, I'd love to have someone to talk to about it

[Punch]

The thing is, PS doesn't need to "add features"

they need to do the one feature right.   It's a bug.   

This would impact a 256 color pcx just the same.  It inverts the entire palette and is wrong. 

It's a pretty old bug that's for sure... I always make sure to work with an inverted 256 palette before saving to PCX anwyay (Index 255 is pretend #0, etc.), having another program in the pipeline everytime I want to update art would be extremely aggravating.

I'd ditch it if I was familiar with a better program, but unfortunately I'm not and I'm no artist anyway.

[DarkKobold]

I prefer to chunk it by color, going from dark to lightest each for easier tracking when swapping or animating colors in the palettes

This is super appreciated, btw.

[Gredler]

I'd say I've put about 5 hours into free Pro Motion NG, and have to encourage again that any PCE artists try it out. I am picking it up a bit now, and am definitely seeing advantages over photoshop which I had never been able to say before. Setting up palettes is a bit shmarmy at first but that is an attribute of establishing workflows and environments, common practices. The team behind it seems responsive, and working towards people's requests and suggestions quickly.

Leaning more and more towards buying it

[Arkhan]

hahhhhhhh see photoshop sucks.

[Gredler]

Danm, you got me.

I do think I will buy this over the weekend. I feel constrained by the lack of layers, and I am super curious about the dither painting tools, and multi shade gradients. I love the auto dithering gradients.

Some things I miss from photoshop, which I hope are alleviated in the full version and familiarity:

- It's difficult to overlay sprites while working on tile maps. My workflow in photoshop includes having sprites 'floating' anywhere I position them, so I can see how the character and gameplay elements look over the tiles as I draw them, to make sure they don't blend together. In Pro Motion NG it seems like any art on the screen is part of the tile, not 'separate'. I am hoping I can put sprites on a layer and then hide them when exporting so that I can see how the colors play together while working but not affect the final art.

- Out of the box brush library. In photoshop you have a astronomically more robust brush library out of the gate. In addition to the library initially available, you have a ton of very accessible and easy to adjust controls for things like hue/saturation/value, size, scatter, rotation, angle, and more. You can also easly find packs of brushes that people have made you can take and use. I hope I get enlightened on how to do similar things in PMNG but right now photoshop wins in the brush catagory

- Smart objects. Being able to create a non destructive instance of a group of layers, perform adjustments and transformations, then bake that into a new object is super handy and nice esp when working on variances of a single asset

- Interface. It sucks not being able to quickly dock the palettes to eachother, and although you can quickly save and load 2 interfaces; photoshop lets you save and name as many as you want, and is much easier to quickly layout and adjust the interface to fit different image scales and needs.

The palette handling however, is so much beyond what photoshop focuses on that it encourages me to keep going and figuring the program out. I wont stop, cant stop, and am having fun doing it.

Here is a shot of me drawing some shit. Arkhan, look at this shit. You love this shit.