Author Topic: Lik Sang (Read 2254 times)

FM-77 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 26, 2006, 08:30:39 AM »

All I have to say is: Xbox 360 has been more or less a "flop" ever since it got released. It seems to do fairly well in North America, but is more or less a disaster in all the other parts of the world. Wii will probably be popular for about a year, but then it will fade away due to lack of good software. Sony has really strong 3rd party relations, and Final Fantasy alone can easily make it a success.

I haven't heard much bad stuff about the PS3 other than on uber-geek websites that nobody visits (such as that japanophile website with the yellow/green color scheme, don't remember its name) and message boards. Most magazines are seemingly heavily anticipating the release of the PS3.

Sony has no competition this generation. They might not sell 100 million units like they've done so far with the PS2 (and it is still selling really, REALLY well - much much better than the Xbox 360), but it will undoubtedly be the winning console.

Quote from: "sunteam_paul"

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

Where did you hear this? I remember that the Dreamcast got tons of really, really bad press (on TV, magazines and on the Internet) shortly after its release. I have honestly never heard anything good about the Dreamcast other than from diehard fans. The Xbox 360 will more than likely fare a similiar fate.

Black Tiger · « **Reply #31 on:** October 26, 2006, 08:31:09 AM »

Quote from: "nodtveidt"

I know absolutely no one here looking forward to the PS3. In fact, most of the video game stores down here still have tons of open slots for PS3 preorders.

Thats because you're a "forum geek"!

But Seldane's right, there's no acounting for taste and people don't learn lessons very well. They keep coming back for punishment again and again when they get screwed over by a company.

Paris Hilton is a multimedia superstar and OJ gets to write a book about how the murders happened, -under the imaginary scenario that he actually did it. What still mourning innocent guy wouldn't accept $3.5 million to do this?

But you know what, the book will sell millions. Because regular people just don't care.

Quote

All I have to say is: Xbox 360 has been more or less a "flop" ever since it got released. It seems to do fairly well in North America, but is more or less a disaster in all the other parts of the world. Wii will probably be popular for about a year, but then it will fade away due to lack of good software. Sony has really strong 3rd party relations, and Final Fantasy alone can easily make it a success.

I haven't heard much bad stuff about the PS3 other than on uber-geek websites (such as that japanophile website with the yellow/green color scheme, don't remember its name) and message boards. Most magazines are seemingly heavily anticipating the release of the PS3.

Sony has no competition this generation. They might not sell 100 million units like they did with the PS2, but it will undoubtedly be the winning console.

The Sega Genesis was a flop in Japan and only succeeded because of the massive U.S. market. As long as a system wins in America, they've won overall.

esteban · « **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2006, 08:33:27 AM »

Quote from: "sunteam_paul"

Quote from: "Seldane"
PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next..

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

Quote from: "Seldane"

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys.

...and people who bought Sony audio CDs that contained spyware, and people that bought machines with Sony batteries that could have blown up, and people who play the many Sony MMOs that they have screwed into the ground, and Joe Public who has had to buy 2 or more PlayStations because they kept breaking down...

...don't underestimate the power of the internet and bad press.

Sorry, but I agree with Seldane on this one. The only folks who are "pissed off at Sony" are a small minority of customers. Mainstream gamers, Sony's bread and butter, are grumbling about the price of the PS3, but not about whether or not they want a PS3. We (geeks) live in an isolated bubble and if we're not careful, we start to generalize our online experiences (i.e. the constant ragging on Sony and hourly predictions of Sony's imminent collapse in gaming forums, digg.com, /., etc.) as if they were sentiments held by the vast majority of gaming consumers. Will Sony's reign last forever? No. Will it end with the PS2? No.

Of course I can't predict the future, but, IMO, it will be incredibly unlikely that PS3 will be anything but a success. XBOX360 is a runner-up, as far as the general gaming public is concerned. Wii is the wildcard (and I think it could be pretty successful for Nintendo... at least as successful as GameCube, which, despite being looked down upon, was profitable since day 1 of launch... unlike, say, Microsoft's consoles). PS3, I predict, will again be market leader, though perhaps MS and Nintendo can grab a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

I know MS intends to make inroads in the console gaming market, but it won't be this generation that will enable them to rival Sony's dominance. Also, Sony profits from PS1 and PS2, which certainly help them when they lose mad cash on PS3 hardware. Microsoft has so much $$$ that it could sustain losses forever, though. I know Sony has tons of $$$ as well, but I'm not sure any corporation, outside of MS, could sustain such losses without blinking an eyelash:

Quote

"Home and Entertainment operating loss increased primarily as a result of a $682 million increase in cost of revenue primarily associated with the Xbox 360, partially offset by the revenue growth," the company said in its earnings report. "Our business model anticipates that while we currently sell Xbox 360 consoles at a negative margin, product cost reductions and the future margins on sales of games and other products will enable us to achieve a positive margin over the Xbox 360 console lifecycle."

While such predictions may reassure some, others will find it interesting that Microsoft also still loses money on the original Xbox, which was introduced back in 2001. "The first-generation Xbox consoles continue to have negative margins," said the company." source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154413.html

Black Tiger · « **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2006, 09:52:01 AM »

Quote from: "stevek666"

Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
Quote from: "Seldane"
PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next..

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

Quote from: "Seldane"

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys.

...and people who bought Sony audio CDs that contained spyware, and people that bought machines with Sony batteries that could have blown up, and people who play the many Sony MMOs that they have screwed into the ground, and Joe Public who has had to buy 2 or more PlayStations because they kept breaking down...

...don't underestimate the power of the internet and bad press.

Sorry, but I agree with Seldane on this one. The only folks who are "pissed off at Sony" are a small minority of customers. Mainstream gamers, Sony's bread and butter, are grumbling about the price of the PS3, but not about whether or not they want a PS3. We (geeks) live in an isolated bubble and if we're not careful, we start to generalize our online experiences (i.e. the constant ragging on Sony and hourly predictions of Sony's imminent collapse in gaming forums, digg.com, /., etc.) as if they were sentiments held by the vast majority of gaming consumers. Will Sony's reign last forever? No. Will it end with the PS2? No.

Of course I can't predict the future, but, IMO, it will be incredibly unlikely that PS3 will be anything but a success. XBOX360 is a runner-up, as far as the general gaming public is concerned. Wii is the wildcard (and I think it could be pretty successful for Nintendo... at least as successful as GameCube, which, despite being looked down upon, was profitable since day 1 of launch... unlike, say, Microsoft's consoles). PS3, I predict, will again be market leader, though perhaps MS and Nintendo can grab a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

I know MS intends to make inroads in the console gaming market, but it won't be this generation that will enable them to rival Sony's dominance. Also, Sony profits from PS1 and PS2, which certainly help them when they lose mad cash on PS3 hardware. Microsoft has so much $$$ that it could sustain losses forever, though. I know Sony has tons of $$$ as well, but I'm not sure any corporation, outside of MS, could sustain such losses without blinking an eyelash:
Quote
"Home and Entertainment operating loss increased primarily as a result of a $682 million increase in cost of revenue primarily associated with the Xbox 360, partially offset by the revenue growth," the company said in its earnings report. "Our business model anticipates that while we currently sell Xbox 360 consoles at a negative margin, product cost reductions and the future margins on sales of games and other products will enable us to achieve a positive margin over the Xbox 360 console lifecycle."

While such predictions may reassure some, others will find it interesting that Microsoft also still loses money on the original Xbox, which was introduced back in 2001. "The first-generation Xbox consoles continue to have negative margins," said the company." source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154413.html

And as soon as Microsoft becomes the new leader, everyone will hate them the most instead.

Bonknuts · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2006, 11:49:38 AM »

The downfall of Sony is not going to come from consumer presure or displeasure. I don't think they're stupid enough to agitate the consumer to this point - although they sure do like trying to mold the market in what's considered quality or popular for the masses. I'm sure Sony pulls some strong arm tactics with developers in the way Nintendo did with the SNES and this will more that likely be their downfall. In the end, the average (and yes stupid) American consumer will buy its console because everybody tells them Sony is the best - has the best - and you're a loser if you don't have one.

MS success for the 'box was its aggressive advertising to the older audience - paticularly to sports and non-gamers. 360 on the other hand is enjoying a little more success on a wider range of audience than it's predecessor thanks to the exposure of its predecessor, but MS will more than likely not be that competitive or even in the same bracket with the Sony this time around. They're still building there recognition in the gaming world. I'm sure MS is already working on it next-gen console though. Sony maybe be winning the fight, but one thing is for sure - MS is in it for the war (and has the funds to back it up).

I'm still not sure about Nintendo. They are a profitable company among other things, but there image in the broader gaming world or US to be specific is still trying to recover. I think Nintendo's strategy right now is to just stay in the game so to speak by offering unique software and ideas as it can't just complete directly with Sony in its current state. As long as they survive, they will have as chance later down the road. I wouldn't be supprised if they team up with another company the way NEC and Hudson did.

There is also room for an unkown to come into the market and take it the way Sony did with the PS. This will probably happen around the PS4 time as people tend to yern for charge and something new/fresh over time.

Keranu · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2006, 12:27:45 PM »

I don't know about you guys, but around this part of America, the 360 is huge. No one seems interested in anything else honestly, all they care about is their war games and Madden

. People seem awfully turned off by the fact of how much PS3 costs too, so in my prediction the PS3 will flop in this part of the country at least. Wii is most certainly a wild card, as Steve put it.

GUTS · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2006, 12:45:39 PM »

Microsoft is basically following the same strategy that made Sega a success with the Genesis. They're going after the older mass market demographic in America, and that's FPS and sports games, which is basically what Sega did back in the early 90s with sports games. Plus with how people will generally pick whatever option is cheapest if they can't really see any difference between the two, I don't see how the 360 can be anything but a smashing success in America.

Bonknuts · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2006, 12:50:57 PM »

PS3's cost is going to cut out some of its younder audience - including pre-teens as well as teens. This is were Wii will increase it's consumer base. 360 is enjoying some success because the PS3 hasn't come out yet. I almost bought a 360 this summer until I realised it was an additional $50 for component cables ($299 system doesn't come with them). If Hudson brings out the Far East of Eden game, then it's on. I won't be buying a PS3 until there are a fair amount of quality titles out for it - regardless of a price drop or not. In the past, I've tried to purchase all the systems at some point, but it's getting pretty expensive now a days.

Digi.k · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:41:24 PM »

You know I have no doubt the PS3 will be a success.. but probably not as big as their PS2 and it will probably take some some before they take that lead..

As for Sony's company as a whole well they not doing very well right now.. Yes there is a small backlash but also their profits have taken quite a nosedive.

this taken from 1up's website:

Sony's Profits Take a Nosedive
Overheating batteries, PS3 cause a 94% plunge in Q2.
by Susan Arendt, 10/26/2006

When forecasting its profit margin for the year, Sony expected to take a hit from the upcoming PlayStation 3 launch; companies regularly lose money when making new hardware, so some financial hemorrhaging was to be expected. What Sony couldn't have foreseen, however, was the massive battery recall that ended up costing them a whopping $429 million and sent their bottom line screaming into the basement.

Yahoo breaks down the battery snafu: practically every laptop maker in the world has recalled Sony's lithium-ion batteries due to their unfortunate (though rare) habit of overheating and bursting into flames. The cost to Sony's profits is obvious, but the more subtle damage was done to the company's image as a mainstay of consumer technology. The recall couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony, whose gaming division also posted a loss of $366 million as a result of PS3 prep. Even Sony's movie business failed to impress, adding another $129 million to the company's total losses.

While Sony's decision to reduce the number of PSPs shipped in fiscal 2006 makes a certain amount of sense in light of this financial news, its decision to lower the cost of the PS3 in Japan by 20% is curious. Such a slash will reduce what little profit the company was going to make on the hardware that would have almost certainly sold out at the full asking price.

If you want to read it in full you can go here: Yea I know I'm fanning the flames of hate a bit but I got burnt earlier this year from sony while I was trying to sell my "foreign" DVD imports on eBay.. ¬__¬

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony_11

PC Gaijin · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2006, 02:12:54 PM »

Lets dig this thread up in about two years.

Black Tiger · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2006, 03:42:02 PM »

Quote from: "PC Gaijin"

Lets dig this thread up in about two years.

Its hilarious the crap I read in 'vintage' gaming mags!

esteban · « **Reply #41 on:** October 27, 2006, 09:43:31 AM »

Quote from: "Digi.k"

You know I have no doubt the PS3 will be a success.. but probably not as big as their PS2 and it will probably take some some before they take that lead..

As for Sony's company as a whole well they not doing very well right now.. Yes there is a small backlash but also their profits have taken quite a nosedive.

this taken from 1up's website:

Sony's Profits Take a Nosedive
Overheating batteries, PS3 cause a 94% plunge in Q2.
by Susan Arendt, 10/26/2006

When forecasting its profit margin for the year, Sony expected to take a hit from the upcoming PlayStation 3 launch; companies regularly lose money when making new hardware, so some financial hemorrhaging was to be expected. What Sony couldn't have foreseen, however, was the massive battery recall that ended up costing them a whopping $429 million and sent their bottom line screaming into the basement.

Yahoo breaks down the battery snafu: practically every laptop maker in the world has recalled Sony's lithium-ion batteries due to their unfortunate (though rare) habit of overheating and bursting into flames. The cost to Sony's profits is obvious, but the more subtle damage was done to the company's image as a mainstay of consumer technology. The recall couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony, whose gaming division also posted a loss of $366 million as a result of PS3 prep. Even Sony's movie business failed to impress, adding another $129 million to the company's total losses.

While Sony's decision to reduce the number of PSPs shipped in fiscal 2006 makes a certain amount of sense in light of this financial news, its decision to lower the cost of the PS3 in Japan by 20% is curious. Such a slash will reduce what little profit the company was going to make on the hardware that would have almost certainly sold out at the full asking price.

If you want to read it in full you can go here: Yea I know I'm fanning the flames of hate a bit but I got burnt earlier this year from sony while I was trying to sell my "foreign" DVD imports on eBay.. ¬__¬

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony_11

Yeah, Sony's profits are down, but that's partially due to the massive R & D costs for the PS3 (and the battery recall is also mentoined!). MS faced similar issues with the R & D for Xbox360... I can't even begin to imagine how much time and resources went into 360 and PS3, it's truly amazing.

As for what GUTS said: The problem with your comparison of Genny to 360 is that the Genny was a bonafide success back in the day. While I agree with you that the marketing of the 360 (i.e. emphasis on sports and more mature games for mature gamers) is similar to the strategy Sega used, MS has not been nearly as successful in employing it as Sega did. This isn't because of some failing of MS, mind you, but simply because there are many other factors that determine how successful a console will be.

And, to further build on your example, SNES somehow beat back the mighty Genny, despite the dominant position it held. I still can't believe that happened, since I thought Genny was going to rule the 16-bit era. Prior to the launch of SNES, I didn't think anything could dampen Sega's spirits. Unfortunatley, I fear that once Wii and PS3 are launched, the glimmer of hope you see for the 360 (i.e. for it to be a resounding success) will fade fainter and fainter.

Of course, I'm also messing with you

. My speculation is simply my speculation

. I don't take myself too seriously. Perhaps the 360 will be a much bigger contender than I have given it credit for. Perhaps this generation will be the turning point for MS (I doubt it! Just kidding.)

Ahhhhhh, I should just wait and see what happens.

As PC Gaijin said: We should dig up this thread in 2008!

PC Gaijin · « **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2006, 12:49:32 PM »

I'm not making any predictions because I have no clue what will happen. Seriously, I am waiting until at least fall 2007 or sometime in 2008 before making a decision on what next-gen console to get. By then, prices will be down, software and hardware will be plentiful (and more reliable if history is any indication). Most importantly, by that time it should be relatively clear who is going to "win" (however you define that, whether it's marketshare or just simply the software support). As long as you have software to keep you busy until then (and I do, PS2 alone will keep me going another year) then waiting to see how things pan out is the wisest move IMO.

All that jibber-jabber aside, trying to compare current systems to past console histories never seems to pan out. Of late, the favorite comparison seems to be PS3 is N64, 360 is Dreamcast, and Wii is DS. Of course, those comparisons really reveal more about the one doing the comparison and where their loyalties lie.

For all the similarities you can draw between various console launches, you can also find all sorts of differences. Take steve's point about the Genesis being an bonafide success compared to the 360's lukewarm (depending on your POV) history so far. One thing to keep in mind though (and so many people seem to forget this) is that the Genesis was not a roaring success out of the gate. It outsold the Turbo of course, but both systems were still minor players compared to the NES, which had its best year during 1990. The Genesis didn't start to build up steam until Sonic and the SNES came out. The SNES outsold Genesis that Christmas of 91, and it wasn't until 92 that the Genesis really started taking the lead. It's kind of hard to say the 360 won't be a success comparable to the Genesis when the 360 is still somewhere around 90-91 in the Genesis timeline.

Joe Redifer · « **Reply #43 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:08:03 PM »

Over at Magic Box we have to relocate to a new server because we are currently hosted by Lik-sang. Sucks.

esteban · « **Reply #44 on:** October 27, 2006, 11:12:51 PM »

Quote from: "PC Gaijin"

It outsold the Turbo of course, but both systems were still minor players compared to the NES, which had its best year during 1990. The Genesis didn't start to build up steam until Sonic and the SNES came out. The SNES outsold Genesis that Christmas of 91, and it wasn't until 92 that the Genesis really started taking the lead. It's kind of hard to say the 360 won't be a success comparable to the Genesis when the 360 is still somewhere around 90-91 in the Genesis timeline.

Yes, my bad on all counts.

But, in defense, I was working with GUTS' scenario. In my own scenario, 360 = TG-16 and PS3 = SNES!