Author Topic: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it  (Read 4475 times)

BigusSchmuck

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 03:42:22 PM »
About the only thing I played on a Wonderswan were those Final Fantasy games and a Macross strategy game. I enjoyed the Macross games on the PCE much more.

Michirin9801

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 03:47:59 PM »
But hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.


Find me an NGPC game that looks as good as this:

Or this:

And I'll eat my words... And then play it... (The GB will always sound better though)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 03:50:23 PM by Michirin9801 »

SignOfZeta

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 04:16:01 PM »
FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.

I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...

Michirin9801

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 04:27:34 PM »
FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.

I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...

Just remove the S from "https"

And it's not just the FMV or the line-scrolling roads, check out just how many scanline interrupts we've got going on in Wacky Races! Basically, one for every scanline, so it can not only do an Amiga-style gradient in the background, but also do high-colour sprites in the character selection screen, smoothly transition between different road types, fade in and out sprites from view as if there was actually fog on the roads, and make highly-colourful and detailed backgrounds by being able to use every palette on it before they even bother to draw the road, also the smoothly scaling big sprites with little-to-no noticeable flickering that use a much more varied palette than the regular NGPC sprites...

And Cannon Fodder also has pre-rendered pre-stage screens that look real nice, and the game itself looks pretty good as well... I'd also throw in Donkey Kong Country which looks pretty good on GBC, but that game just isn't impressive enough, Lucky Luke on the other hand is:

^This one has parallax scrolling in spots, highly colourful sprites, and some pretty smooth animations as well!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 04:32:13 PM by Michirin9801 »

ccovell

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 05:15:41 PM »
To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down.  Music too.  Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part.  People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it.  Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.

The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.

Michirin9801

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 05:40:11 PM »
To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down.  Music too.  Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part.  People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it.  Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.

The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.

While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be... The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!

The Wonderswan on the other hand, while the unit itself may not be of the highest quality, and the library is small and filled with licensed games, it does have its fair share of quality games! And the fighting games there are on the system, few as they may be, far surpass the NGPC's offerings! Honestly, I think the Wonderswan is what the NGPC should have been, I mean, what good is a 16 bit CPU when your graphics are still only 2bpp and your sound isn't any better than the SMS?
Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...

And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!

Also, the Lynx is another one that I haven't tried, but of all the Atari systems that one looks like the most interesting one, I mean, it does a lot of scaling and that's cool!

SignOfZeta

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 06:12:34 PM »
If you don’t like fighters then the NGP isn’t really for you.

The emulators don’t really tell the story either. It ignores the NGP’s 8 direction microswitch joystick, which actually makes playing all those fighting games possible.


The Lynx was great but also several times more expensive than these systems and the battery life was not quite the same as the 50 hours you get from two AAs in the NGP and nearly half that with only one AA in the WS. This was the era of austere handheld gaming brought on by the realization that the weakest handheld had consistently crushed the completion full stop so power probabky didn’t matter, especially when battery life was so bad you couldn’t really leave the house with the backlit color stuff.

Screen tech is a huge thing too that doesn’t come across in an emulator, with the Swan Cryrstal being vastly better than NGP and NGP better the GBC.

So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play? The FMV intro is cool but the game it’s attached to doesn’t look quite as fun as Metal Slug 2nd Mission. I have 200 hours into the *second* Card Fighters game which is longer than I’ve played any GBC game except Pokemon Pinball (which I was fantastical about for some reason) so I guess for me it’s about the games and not so much the hardware but even the hardware is pretty great. The GBC’s fighting games are a flickering unplayable joke compared to Match of the Millennium or Gals Fighters of Last Blade. Warioware pretty much jacked it’s thing from Ganbare Neo Poke-kun* (which has some great tech demo mini games in it). You have to spend actual time with the games to understand this though and actual money helps. I was an avid customer of NGP and GBC at the time and the comparisons were constant and always one sided against GBC’s 80s past. Aparently after I ditched GBC and more of the clear carts (GBC only) started coming out the bling blong went sky high but you can’t tell me that Toy Story game looks like something worth owning a system for. 




* I wish I could explain Neo Poke-kun but its just f*cking impossible. You have to live with it for life to understand it. Its genius, realer than real.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:17:39 PM by SignOfZeta »

ccovell

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 08:32:07 PM »
And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!

What I remember reading is that the WS multiplexes its 4 channels' outputs through PWM at a high rate (similar to the Namco 163) but this is still quite audible.  On the actual WS hardware, the PWM audio is passed through to the piezeo speaker as-is, but the headphone attachment contains a lowpass filter to take out the PWM aliasing.  So it sounds good ONLY IF you purchase the official headphone adaptor.

Arkhan

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 12:41:14 AM »
While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be...


Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.

Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck?    I don't know.   

It's true that if you don't want to play a fighting game, there's hardly a point to owning a NGPC.

Without it, I was stuck with Fist of the Northstar and Mortal Kombat for Gameboy as portable fighting.   What a disaster my life was.

In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid.   You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.

Lucky you, lol.

Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.

The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit.   It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home. 

The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing.   otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game.   

Quote
The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!

(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax.  Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing.  They just go together nicely.)

All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA.  The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy. 

Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too.  It all sounded blerpy.  Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.

When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.

The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight.   The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.   

I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better.    You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.   

The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens.   It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important.   Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such.   The pop went away.

Neither the NGPC (outside of the fighting games) or Wonderswan is really that amazing.  They had their interesting/neat games, and they were fun enough to have.   

Though, I didn't like Wonderswan's buttons.  They are gross.

however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy.  Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbf*cks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.

and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.

The Gameboy Color was stupid.  I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid.  I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?".  Links Awakening DX ?  "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.   

but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours.   It was fun.  It was also small.  and it was that cool clear purple stuff.

I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path.   It just did.  It didn't look or sound the best, but it won.   I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go.  The library had it all (except fighters, lol).   

Maybe we were dumb.  I don't know.  I used to hold a flashlight in my mouth to see what the f*ck was going on in games.  Those click on lights/magnifiers were idiotic as hell.   I remember trying to play in the dark, using passing streetlights to fumble through FF Legend #1. 



Quote
Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...

So, PC-E is 8-bit, and it looks better than both. 

but, chances are they will say Gamegear because it's backlit, they can see what the f*ck is going on, and you're probably showing them Columns or Sonic, so they'll just assume things. 

(Oh hey, NGPC had a cool Sonic game)

A less informed gamer probably has no idea what 4bpp or background plane even means, so I hope you wouldn't expect to even say those words at them.

Here's my take on the NGPC and Wonderswan (I used to have both)


vs.




Visually, Wonder Stadium looks a little better, but that music is itchy.   and Baseball Stars played better.



Looking back, I played alot of Golf on Gameboy.   Just plain ass Golf.  and Baseball.   Some real in depth naming from Nintendo there.

Mario Golf on GBC didn't look great at all compared to Nice On or Neo Turf Masters, but that didn't stop me from playing it endlessly, either.


and I don't even like Golf.   I hate golf.   I don't know why I like Golf games.



anyway, I think the takeaway is Wonderswan's just another thing that got steamrolled by gameboy, with a handful of cool shit, and gross buttons.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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SignOfZeta

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 02:10:47 AM »
The Swan Crystal has a screen as good as the NGPC but wider. The original Color Swan was a massively blurry mess. I swear there must be 400ms of latency in that LCD. Anything static looks fine but moving things look like some cable access FX was applied. In a game where the entire screen scrolls with the character, the character is visable but the background almost vansishes. The Crystal fixed this completely.

Michirin9801

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2017, 04:30:41 AM »
If you don’t like fighters then the NGP isn’t really for you.
I bloody LOVE fighting games! I've played practically every colour fighting game the NGPC has to offer (but not the black and white ones) and while they certainly have bigger and more smoothly animated sprites than the GBC, and a 2nd BG layer (which was often just used on the HUD so there was no parallax) those were the only real advantage they have, at least from a hardware perspective... What really drags it down to me is the fact that every single character in every single one of them is just black, white and a 3rd custom colour... While it is true that GBC fighting games aren't as good, it's really not that hard to find GBC games which look better than NGPC games due to having more colourful characters, and since the tiles are still only 2bpp, the colour density in the backgrounds isn't any higher than the GBC...
What really drags the NGPC down to me though is the sound, I just can't stress how much of a difference having varied waveforms makes, and the NGPC doesn't have that, it's all just square waves and white noise, that's weak! It's this weak sound that makes it truly underwhelming to me...

Now, I haven't played on a real GBC, so I don't know how bad its screen was, I've played those games on the GBA SP and on the 3DS, so maybe the NGPC looked better back then because it had a better screen, but if we look at the games for what they are, not necessarily having to compare the actual handhelds, NGPC games look about on-par with GBC games, maybe a little better sometimes, sounds are definitely worse, but the GBC had the fortune of having its hardware pushed to hell and back by some very smart devs, (probably because it was so much more popular) so it has a lot of games that are really impressive-looking...

So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play?

I play all of them ;3
They're actually really fun! Except for Lucky Luke using B to jump and A to attack, that's just rubbish...

Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.

Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck?    I don't know.   
I mean the games are fine but the hardware is kinda crap... The thing about the NGPC is that its weaknesses are much more pronounced than the GBC's, at least in emulation...

In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid.   You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.

Lucky you, lol.

Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.

The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit.   It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home. 

The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing.   otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game.   

I get this point, but I'm enthralled by less capable hardware, anything more powerful than a GBA pretty much ceases to impress me, at least when it comes to 2D...
For example, you'd think I'd hate playing the GBC version of Donkey Kong Country, but I think that version, while not ideal because of its wonky controls, is thoroughly fascinating! They've put Donkey Kong Country on an 8 bit handheld! And it looks the part, it kinda sounds the part, and it's pretty much feature-complete! That's awesome! Will I pick this version over the SNES original? Nope... But I will pick Guilty Gear Petit 2 on the Wonderswan over the original game on PlayStation ;3
And perhaps even Pocket Fighter as well, even if it's in black and white, but that version sounds nice~

(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax.  Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing.  They just go together nicely.)
I know, but when you have 2 BG layers to work with, and you don't do parallax, then unless you have a damn good reason (like having a top-down view for example) then I think you're not doing your game any favours...

All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA.  The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy. 

Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too.  It all sounded blerpy.  Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.

When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.
The Game Gear and the NGPC have basically the same sound, but the Game Boy was like a whole step and a half above those two, and the Wonderswan was yet another step and a half above the Game Boy, yeah the difference from the WS to the GB isn't mind-blowing, especially not when so many games insisted in using just square waves, but the few games that really took advantage of the sound hardware managed to sound pretty good!
I'm not too sure about the Lynx but I think that one is capable of playing samples, so that's nice...

The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight.   The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.   

I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better.    You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.   

The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens.   It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important.   Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such.   The pop went away.

Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...

however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy.  Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbf*cks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.

and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.

The Gameboy Color was stupid.  I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid.  I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?".  Links Awakening DX ?  "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.   

but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours.   It was fun.  It was also small.  and it was that cool clear purple stuff.

I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path.   It just did.  It didn't look or sound the best, but it won.   I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go.  The library had it all (except fighters, lol).   

The Game Boy won because of Tetris and Pokemon... In my opinion these are FAR from the best games on the system, but these two really helped cement the Game Boy's place as the most popular handheld... True, it may not have looked or sounded the best, but everyone had it, everyone wanted to play Tetris in its early days, and Pokemon in its later days, but the system was still good enough to play Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Mega Man and what not, so why not put out games on the system that everyone already had? Some of us will buy and play all of the game systems, but most people will just stick with the first one they get, and for most people that was the Game Boy...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 04:32:47 AM by Michirin9801 »

Black Tiger

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2017, 06:49:21 AM »
Mode 7/pixelization isn't a good art style and is only impressive on a technical level when you're told that it's challenging for the hardware. Genuine artwork and pixelart is infinitely more impressive and enjoyable.

Gameboy Color is significantly superior hardware compared to the original Gameboy, but the games we got make it feel inferior to Neo Geo Pocket Color in every way except sound, but it happens to have one of my favorite chip sounds.

GBC games feel full of compromises, the way that 8-bit console ports do. The NGPC games don't feel like they're making any compromises.

Even in the most impressive GBC games, it looks and feels like sprites are distorted and in funky shapes and sizes because of sprite limitations. Even with compromised sprites, flicker is common. You also get a feel for when there aren't more sprites onscreen overall because there can't be and a lot of action leads to slowdown.

Sprites in NGPC games feel like their sizes were chosen for what works best on the small screen and were drawn the way the artist wanted. The pixelart for sprites and backgrounds doesn't look or feel like its built around restrictions. Some games toss around enough sprites and action that it would be impressive in a 16-bit console game. All without noticeable flicker or slowdown.

I don't know what the color palettes or restrictions are for these systems, but GBC games tend to use gaudier colors and feel like they're held back by bottlenecks. NGPC games have smoother/subtler/softer coloring and stark contrast in certain elements look and feel like it's to make things like a player sprite stand out on the limited screen.

GBC game backgrounds look and feel noticeable tiled, like <medium sized NES games. NGPC game backgrounds don't look or feel like they have any limitations at all and often feature less tiled than 16-bit console games.

GBC games look and feel like it can't handle too much sprite animation at a time. NGPC games look and feel like everything can be highly animated without challenge.


It's fair to say that the difference between GBC games and NGPC games is similar to the difference between 16-bit console games and Neo Geo games. And this is with the GBC's massive success leading to it  being pushed much further by top developers, while the NGPC has just getting started.
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seieienbu

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2017, 07:30:39 AM »
I picked up a Wonderswan color when it came out along with FF1.  It was kinda fun for a while; I was taking Japanese in college at the time so I used that as an excuse to justify the purchase.  In the end I only wound up with a few other games.  FF2, 4, Blue Wing Blitz, Rockman and Forte, and a couple of Gundam games.  I later got a Wonderswan black and white for really cheap but never got a Crystal.  The system was neat but I didn't make much use out of it as games were annoying to get ahold of and there weren't that many options that I was interested in.

I loved NGPC fighting games for the novelty of being able to play a fighting game with reasonably good control on the go.  The games had robust combo engines and played much better than you would expect.  Obviously I'd prefer if they had put four buttons on the thing; I always thought that was a glaring oversight.  As most of the games on the platform that people wanted were fighting games based off of a 4 button arcade machine it just seems that you'd naturally want to put in the extra two buttons.  Aside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite.  I'm not sure if every color pallet included the first three colors or just the clear color but either way I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude.  If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.

My favorite games that weren't fighters were Metal Slug and Sonic.  I gladly purchased Bust a Move and played for a bit but as much as I wanted to love the game it was just too hard to see the different colors on that screen in all but perfect lighting.  After those though, I was always intrigued by Ogre Battle.  I loved the SNES game and I thought the NGPC version was really neat.  It was very hard to understand the dialog as it used no kanji and didn't put spaces in the text at all but it played well. 

After being pretty much unable to figure out what they were saying in Ogre Battle, I wanted some RPGs for the platform to come out in English.  Though I hadn't known of its impending release, I read about Faselei being canned when SNK went bankrupt and thought that was it and there never would be any RPGs in English.  Some years passed and I was at a Hastings (video rental chain in the south) and I saw sets of NGPCs for sale with 4 games for something like $80.  They didn't have their original packaging but instead were in a clear plastic container.  While looking them over I saw one set came with Faselei so I, of course, picked it up.  I think I booted the game up once; maybe I'll go back and try to finish it at some point but by the time that was released the sting of not having an RPG on NGPC had gone away and it was mostly just a thing of curiosity and not something that I actually wanted to play.

Current want list:  Bomberman 93

Michirin9801

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2017, 08:06:39 AM »
@Black Tiger, sure, if you think that way it's fine, but gameplay footage or images speak louder than words, show me an NGPC game that looks better than Wacky Racers, Lucky Luke or Cannon Fodder...

Heck, I'll even throw in Dragon Quest III, although this is not the ideal version of the game, and the sprites are just black, white and an accent colour (which makes it look more like an NGPC game) the overworld backgrounds look brilliant! They look almost 16 bit! And in the battles, while there are no backgrounds, which is a real bummer IMO and what ultimately turns me off of this version, they've still managed to animate all of the enemies, and with more than one animation per enemy!

(There's a battle at 27:46)

Dragon Quest I + II also looks pretty good, DQ1 even has backgrounds during battles (because it only has to render 1 enemy per battle so it can use the rest of the layer to put something interesting in there for you to look at) it doesn't animate the enemies, but I think the sprites look even better because they're more colourful, and the overworld backgrounds still look pretty good! Even if not quite as good as III's...

I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude.  If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.
That would have been sick!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 08:09:33 AM by Michirin9801 »

SignOfZeta

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Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2017, 10:29:04 AM »
I think that Wacky Races game looks like shit and no fun, personally so it’s hard to “beat it”. When you see Gals Fighters or Last Blade running on real hardware then you’ve actually seen the thing. As BT said, the NGP does what it did with confidence and ease. There is almost no flicker in the entire NGP library and games got slightly smoother every few months. Gal’s Fighters being the smoothest and R-1 or Fatal Fury being the roughest but every single fighter on NGP looks better than any fighter on GBC. Even during the GBA era when they could do much more complicated games I’d still take the NGP because a perfectly playing simple game is better than something that barely runs and only has half its buttons.

You’re obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly f*cked outlook because of it.