Author Topic: Where's Neutopia?  (Read 2178 times)

Joe Redifer

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 03:50:02 PM »
Quote from: Keranu

One word:

Bomberman


Pfft.  That's hardly an original game.  Terrorists around the world have been playing real-life Bomberman for ages.  Leave it to Hudson to copy terrorists. 

Black Tiger

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 03:59:14 PM »
All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.
Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.


Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called.  :P
« Last Edit: January 15, 2007, 04:02:33 PM by Black_Tiger »
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Keranu

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2007, 04:16:40 PM »
Six words:

Panic Bomber, Bomberman Kart, Bomberman Wars.
Hahaha, good point. Hey what's Bomberman Wars?

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Pfft.  That's hardly an original game.  Terrorists around the world have been playing real-life Bomberman for ages.  Leave it to Hudson to copy terrorists.
Hmm, crap you got me there. I guess Hudson does like to rip people off.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2007, 06:12:23 PM »

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox)


It's OK when Sega does it, and therefore can't be considered a rip-off.

kungfukid

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2007, 08:51:43 PM »

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox)


It's OK when Sega does it, and therefore can't be considered a rip-off.

 :D Glad we cleared that up! Haha!!!!

FM-77

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2007, 01:22:37 AM »
Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.

Oh, and Bomberman might be a rip off of some (really) old computer game I believe.*

*Extreme emphasis on that one, I'm not sure about this.

Joe Redifer

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2007, 11:22:25 AM »
Quote from: Seldane

Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.


Yes, Vic Tokai.  They are responsible for Kid Kool (NES), Psycho Fox (SMS), Magical Hat Flying Turbo Adventure (MD) and Decapattack (Genesis).  They really liked that formula, I guess.  Personally my favorite out of all of those (and I own them all) is Decapattack starring Chuck D. Head.

Vic Tokai is also responsible for Whip Rush on the MD/Genesis.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 11:24:14 AM by Joe Redifer »

Black Tiger

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2007, 01:15:53 PM »
Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.

Oh, and Bomberman might be a rip off of some (really) old computer game I believe.*

*Extreme emphasis on that one, I'm not sure about this.

That's what I was meant, the same people who made the Wonderboy's made the Hudson games. They're not rip offs, unlike Neutopia. Unless some people who worked on Zelda also worked on Neutopia. It also depends on how much credit you want to give to Miyamoto over the guys who did the real work.

Do you know the name or maybe what type of computer that old Bomberman-like game was for? Rip off or not, I'd really like to see it.  :)
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guyjin

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2007, 02:34:57 PM »
Are you thinking of 'Eric and the Floaters' for the ZX Spectrum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomberman_(1983_game)

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Joe Redifer

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2007, 03:56:48 PM »
Quote from: Black_Tiger

That's what I was meant, the same people who made the Wonderboy's made the Hudson games.


So, Wonder Boy 3 on the SMS had at least one dude who worked on the Dragon's Curse?  Same goes for Wonder Boy in Monser Word/Dynastic hero - Wonder Boy 3 MD/Monster Lair et al???

Black Tiger

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2007, 04:25:13 PM »
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esteban

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2007, 05:57:58 PM »
All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.
Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.


Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called.  :P
:) I was playing along with Joe. You know how he is these days.

Anyway, it was my impression that nearly all of the AI sequels (let's throw JJ & Jeff in there as well, just for fun) were developed by Hudson themselves. So, even if the original NES AI was a joint production (for the sake of argument, let's say Hudson was merely the publisher)... all of the subsequent games still qualify as "clones" inspired by the original Wonderboy 1. Now, there might be some AI titles that deviate from the WB1 formula (i.e. an SNES game that GUTS actually likes... but I've never played it... Super Adventure Island 2, perhaps?).

Bottom line, I've played tons of AI games and I like them (including the Gameboy titles). It would be a sad, sad world if Hudson hadn't kept the spirit of WB1 alive all these years.   

I think Hudson did use licensing to sell games (in Japan), but unlike many other companies who use this tactic, Hudson usually had decent games underneath. Perhaps they weren't the most innovative games, but they were usually pretty good. Sure, some may snicker at Keith Courage (Wataru!), but if that was the lowest point, then Hudson has a good track record, IMO.

On a related note: I don't care what Seldane says, I'm grateful that Hudson made Ys IV and Faxanadu. They might not be considered official Falcom canon, but I think they are great.
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Black Tiger

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2007, 06:25:31 PM »
All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.
Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.


Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called.  :P
:) I was playing along with Joe. You know how he is these days.

Anyway, it was my impression that nearly all of the AI sequels (let's throw JJ & Jeff in there as well, just for fun) were developed by Hudson themselves. So, even if the original NES AI was a joint production (for the sake of argument, let's say Hudson was merely the publisher)... all of the subsequent games still qualify as "clones" inspired by the original Wonderboy 1. Now, there might be some AI titles that deviate from the WB1 formula (i.e. an SNES game that GUTS actually likes... but I've never played it... Super Adventure Island 2, perhaps?).

Bottom line, I've played tons of AI games and I like them (including the Gameboy titles). It would be a sad, sad world if Hudson hadn't kept the spirit of WB1 alive all these years.   

I think Hudson did use licensing to sell games (in Japan), but unlike many other companies who use this tactic, Hudson usually had decent games underneath. Perhaps they weren't the most innovative games, but they were usually pretty good. Sure, some may snicker at Keith Courage (Wataru!), but if that was the lowest point, then Hudson has a good track record, IMO.

On a related note: I don't care what Seldane says, I'm grateful that Hudson made Ys IV and Faxanadu. They might not be considered official Falcom canon, but I think they are great.


The Ys series ends at The Dwan Of Ys for me. Everything else are just offshoots.

Even if Hudson had programmed all of their Wonderboy'ish games themselves instead of Escape/Westone/whoever, they were still licensed and used the original source materials.

They wouldn't have gotten away with Neutopia if it had the same world map and dungeons as Zelda. There's a big difference between rip offs and ports.

The SNES AI's were similar in style to the original, but were totally rebalanced. The later NES AI's wound up closer to Super Mario World.

There's nothing wrong with licensed games, even when they use another games' formula, as long as they're good. Hudson still used few licenses during the PCE's lifetime compared to the number of games staring original Hudson characters.
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Keranu

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2007, 09:58:06 PM »
More Hudson/Nintendo love-

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001540.html

Haha, thanks for that link! That's very cool!
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

GUTS

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Re: Where's Neutopia?
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2007, 07:35:15 AM »
Yeah Super Adventure Island 2 is extremely awesome, but it's very similar to the later Wonder Boy games where its a side-scrolling action RPG so it really doesn't deviate from the Wonder Boy mold.  Its not as good as Wonder Boy, but along with Demon's Crest its one of my favorite SNES games of all time since side-scrolling action RPGs are so rare.