Wanna help compile a crappy ebay/net game/laserdisc/arcade buyer/seller list?

[esteban]

Michael, I actually feel the same as you: asemaster has always been a decent fellow. That said, folks whose intent is to merely profit from video games (or anything) are parasites, as far as I am concerned.

RANT (I don't want to derail this topic):
I know, I know, I'm breaking a cardinal sin in the ruthless world of business, but I would never operate a business that way. A "decent" profit is all I need, I don't need "maximum" profit. I had a small mailorder business back in the day (records / fanzines) and I functioned primarily as a distributor. I only asked for a small markup on the items I carried. A lot of folks in the community followed this model, and I followed suit.

I should point out that doing business within a "community" -- a community that you are part of -- can lead to a different set of priorities.

Thus, I can see folks seeking maximum profit on certain items / services if the profit is used to subsidize other things that benefit the community.

That's the key thing: does the community benefit? If not, then we have parasitism...
END RANT

[SignOfZeta]

Um...I don't know...about this.

First of all, waiting a month for a game (or anything else) isn't long enough. Maybe if its UPS, but then there should have been a tracking number. If a USPS package goes missing you'd be lucky to have it in a month. A while ago I mailed two DVDs back to Netflix at the same time (put them in the post together), and somehow they only got one. It eventually showed up, but it took about 3-4 weeks to happen.

Also, if a seller really sells 15,000 items a month on eBay its totally impossible to not get some negative feedback because there are plenty of dick buyers out there. I think 100 negatives a month at that level of selling would be conservative. And then, when other buyers see that negative feedback they are much more likely to jump on the bandwagon and also leave negatives. Also, with the now almost totally automated eBay we have these days, buying things is too easy for some people. They commit to things they don't understand...

I'm saying this as someone who has been buy/sell/trading on the internet since I was using an Xband in my SNES and I've only been screwed once, about 5 months ago. (http://www.himuragames.com/).

Once I bought a joystick from a guy that was described as working. It was a SS Virtua Stick Pro modded to include PS support. When I got the stick the SS function was defective (a button was stuck down) and the PS function was non-operational. I opened the stick and from the crap workmanship in there I could see that the SS function couldn't have been working right since the PS stuff was added (sloppy soldering) so I doubt it was ever tested by anyone. I emailed him about it and he wouldn't work with me, so I fixed the stick myself, and left neutral feedback. What does this guy do? He leaves *me* neutral feedback! WTF did I do? I didn't stop payment or anything. That guy is no longer a registered eBay user and so my neutral is gone, but it does prove you can get screwed for zero reason at all.

Also, 16-bit is on this list. Isn't he like...loved by some buyers?

And lastly, "excessive profiteering"...that's a bunch of crap. If its too expensive, don't buy it.

[Michael Helgeson]

First of all, waiting a month for a game (or anything else) isn't long enough. Maybe if its UPS, but then there should have been a tracking number. If a USPS package goes missing you'd be lucky to have it in a month. A while ago I mailed two DVDs back to Netflix at the same time (put them in the post together), and somehow they only got one. It eventually showed up, but it took about 3-4 weeks to happen.

I understand items being lost in the mail,that can not be helped,and is why I always pay for insurance and tracking when at all possible,however I don't think I referred to anything being lost in the mail. If more then 10 days have gone by and the seller has not sent the item then there is  a problem. Paypal only gives you 45 days I think,so waiting past a month to file a claim is not a very wise move if you suspect you are being ripped off.

Also, if a seller really sells 15,000 items a month on eBay its totally impossible to not get some negative feedback because there are plenty of dick buyers out there. I think 100 negatives a month at that level of selling would be conservative. And then, when other buyers see that negative feedback they are much more likely to jump on the bandwagon and also leave negatives. Also, with the now almost totally automated eBay we have these days, buying things is too easy for some people. They commit to things they don't understand...

When you order 13 items from this seller,and of the 13 only 12 are in the package,and of those 12 all arrived in poor condition,which is not how they were described in the auction details for each item I completely fail to see how this is conservative. Thats 13 purchases screwed up in one fail swoop. I don't agree with the bandwagon comment other then the fact that if they are not getting their items,the seller is not responding to emails,paypal claims ect ect they all have a right to be upset and leave negatives.

I'm saying this as someone who has been buy/sell/trading on the internet since I was using an Xband in my SNES and I've only been screwed once, about 5 months ago. (http://www.himuragames.com/).

Maybe you are incredibly lucky then,however I have had way more people try to screw me over as the list showed, and so have other members here I'm sure,so your experience is not the same as ours I guess.

Also, 16-bit is on this list. Isn't he like...loved by some buyers?

He probably is,however he sent Black-Tiger the ugliest Shuttlegrafx I have ever seen,doubledipped on the shipping,and sent me a Martial Champion that unlike the auction description of great condition, arrived actually in poor,with rugged case,poor condition manual with rusty staples,and a disc with several large scratches. This is why he is on my list.

And lastly, "excessive profiteering"...that's a bunch of crap. If its too expensive, don't buy it.

Typically most buyers don't,however there are people who get taken advantage of because they do not know better or lack the proper information to evaluate the purchase with a sound mind. Same thing as  a car dealer selling you a over priced lemon that was in a flood,and you fell for it because you lacked the ability to use Carfaqs..

Thats why it is good for members of  a community to join together and brand these resellers for what they are,to help others make better choices when at all possible. Whne the truth is exposed everyone is better off.

Whats your ebay id btw?

[rolins]

Also, if a seller really sells 15,000 items a month on eBay its totally impossible to not get some negative feedback because there are plenty of dick buyers out there. I think 100 negatives a month at that level of selling would be conservative. And then, when other buyers see that negative feedback they are much more likely to jump on the bandwagon and also leave negatives. Also, with the now almost totally automated eBay we have these days, buying things is too easy for some people. They commit to things they don't understand...

Well if the dude has any more than 10 neg a month I'm not buying from that person. I don't care if the person sell 15,000 items a month, it's no excuse to have that many unhappy customers. What I don't get is why some buyers don't bother to read the seller's feedback comments before dealing? The feedback comments is there to help buyers to steer clear away from the awful sellers. I guess alot of people are just lazy, and if feedback rating is above 95% they're still okay to buy from.

I'm saying this as someone who has been buy/sell/trading on the internet since I was using an Xband in my SNES and I've only been screwed once, about 5 months ago. (http://www.himuragames.com/).

Once I bought a joystick from a guy that was described as working. It was a SS Virtua Stick Pro modded to include PS support. When I got the stick the SS function was defective (a button was stuck down) and the PS function was non-operational. I opened the stick and from the crap workmanship in there I could see that the SS function couldn't have been working right since the PS stuff was added (sloppy soldering) so I doubt it was ever tested by anyone. I emailed him about it and he wouldn't work with me, so I fixed the stick myself, and left neutral feedback. What does this guy do? He leaves *me* neutral feedback! WTF did I do? I didn't stop payment or anything. That guy is no longer a registered eBay user and so my neutral is gone, but it does prove you can get screwed for zero reason at all.

Why would you give a neutral for item that was basically DOA? If it arrived broken you should've shoved it in their face and ask for refund.

Also, 16-bit is on this list. Isn't he like...loved by some buyers?

16-bit is cool guy along with Dream Stars Japan. Had nothing but smooth transaction from both of them, but you know what they're still guilty for being whore resellers. Take for example DSJ who buys all his goods cheap on YHJ and then resales them on ebay for higher prices. Can't even get a decent price on a loose Marty console b/c of DSJ.

[GUTS]

I can't stand those guys who buy stuff on ebay just to put it their ebay store for ridiculous prices, like that ass hat who has Might & Magic III up right now for like $400 "or best offer".  I sent him an offer of $150 saying that's $20 more than the last 3 have gone for, he countered with $300.

[16-bit]

Also, 16-bit is on this list. Isn't he like...loved by some buyers?

He probably is,however he sent Black-Tiger the ugliest Shuttlegrafx I have ever seen,doubledipped on the shipping,and sent me a Martial Champion that unlike the auction description of great condition, arrived actually in poor,with rugged case,poor condition manual with rusty staples,and a disc with several large scratches. This is why he is on my list.

Michael,
When I originally read your post last year in the thread started by Justin I searched all of my records going back to 2000 and could not find a single sale in your name.  However when I read this post today I noticed the torn check with the name "Colleen" and was able to locate the username “evil6gaming6computers6” and transaction #8179403349 for the Martial Champion you mentioned, for which you left the following positive feedback:

“A+++ seller,THANKS!!!!”.

Moreover, one month later you purchased two additional games from me from the same account: L-Dis #8185733566 and Forgotten Worlds #8186988968, for which the following positive feedback was left respectively.

“no problems here,top notch seller,kills that "bullseye ripoff guy" easily!”

“yet again A+++!!!!!”

Reading over your history, I notice that you are very candid and forthright with your complaints to sellers, however I never received any indication from you at that time or anytime thereafter until nearly 19 months had passed that I had made an error. I am not challenging your assertion that an error may have been made in my grading, but I am puzzled as to why I did not receive any notice from you regarding the condition of the game at that time, but rather a positive feedback and an additional purchase 1 month later.

I have the following paragraph in my listings since 2003:
"All items are guaranteed to work for their intended system unless sold "as-is".  If the item arrives defective or is misrepresented, please contact me within 7 days of delivery.  If I can not replace the item, then a refund will be issued.   All returns must be sent by priority mail with delivery confirmation, and the sender will be refunded for the exact postage amount."

My aim is to have an open channel with buyers.  If you have any suggestion on how I can make that policy less intimidating or more accommodating, please let me know.

Justin's complaints regarding the Shuttlegrafx were well founded, and I did my best to address them immediately upon learning of the situation, which ended up not coming from him but from a message sent by you through eBay.   At the time of that transaction (Early November 2006), I was in the hospital with my wife who had an unexpected C-section with the delivery of our first daughter.  I was doing most of my business on a t-mobile sidekick and I had a huge backlog of shipments by the end of the first week.  Looking back it was incredibly naive and irresponsible to keep my ebay store open during that time since trying to catch up on orders resulted in overlooking issues such as double-checking the condition of the supergrafx prior to sending it out.  I am not making an excuse, but I am looking to apply that experience to future cases and consider temporarily closing my store since I am only a one person operation.  I will be temporarily closing my store this summer and this fall to try to mitigate chances of this occurring again 

I've made other errors in the past as well, and upon notification I have always tried to correct them as quickly as possible.  For example, another pcenginefx member Tron received a Duo-R that was DOA, he contacted me immediately sent it back and I fully refunded him and return shipping.  I have typically 10-20 returns a year and if you have a problem I am willing to work it out.  That is one of the reasons I have a 99.9% feedback percentage.

Lastly, on the issue of eBay buying and reselling, I think eBay is fair game since it really is the best real estate on the internet for buying and selling. But it is my personal belief that private fan sites such as pcenginefx are sacred and should be reserved for fans/gamers only and thus should be off-limits to frequent profit seeking—especially in the buying/selling forums.  Aaron (who owns this site?) does not need to subsidize my business.   

[Michael Helgeson]

Yea I purchased 3 games from you,but only Martial Champions was for me. Our paypal id has both my gfs and my name on it,and yea,I created a new ebay account after we moved and I merged the 2 accounts. The Martial Champion thing bugged me,but I switched the case,the staples,and got the cd resurfaced by a water buffer at a gamestore where I am friends with the manager. It was not such a bad thing to me back then because I could replace and refurbish stuff like cases and all,but when I saw the shuttlegrafx,then I had flashbacks and you know,it is not so likely that Black Tiger has a spare shell laying around to replace on the system,ect ect..After seeing the Shuttlegrafx I added you to my list. Also, back then I left alot more positives then I do now when something is wrong with the item. These days I put up with zilch when something bothers me on a ebay transaction.

The L-Dis and Forgotten Worlds as I said were not for me,but the person I got them for was very happy with them,so I left your feedback according to that,and the fact that your over all prices were better then Bullseye,and the items actually arrived. At that time you were the only US seller with a copy of L-Dis for sale,and my friend really wanted the game because he played my copy of it alot. I don't remember why they wanted the Forgotten Worlds game,because they already had  a US copy.I did not actually pay attention to the condition of the items or anything.

It wouldn't have mattered much either because the person who got them would have had replaced cases or had the disc resurfaced if there was damage,just like me,instead of returning them. Bulls eye prices were sky rocketing,and items never arrived from him. As for my feedback towards the Martial Champion game,like I said,I was alot more forgiving then,esp with sellers,and back then I did not like to risk a negative feedback for complaining unless it was a really major item costing alot. I tended to just save my negatives for expensive items only or items not received. Pretty much I was being choosy about picking my battles. These days I no longer do this,which is why my rating is 98.5 now as you can see.

As of now I no longer do any purchases for anyone else,just myself as it is not worth the hassle to handle deals for friends and family who wont get their own account because I have to go trough the hassle of getting the refunds and what not if something ends up going wrong in the purchase..

Oh yea,also, this feedback comment "A+++ seller,THANKS!!!!" used to be my generic feedback I left anyone for a item received. When I was really happy with the transaction you'd know it because I then leave individual messages saying exactly why I was happy with the deal,as with your case on the other 2 games being your price was lower on those games and they actually arrived compared to Bullseye who was ripping everyone off completely. I still use generic responses even today for the "average" transaction that goes ok with no real majorly massive problems, and for transactions I am more then happy with I usually throw the word "great" or "awesome" in the feedback left..

[esteban]

TANGENT

And lastly, "excessive profiteering"...that's a bunch of crap. If its too expensive, don't buy it.

"Not buying it" is only half (or less!) of what is required, unless you're just a lazy bum / don't really care. Creating and providing an alternative to the profiteers is a viable goal that many people have striven for in every facet of the economy.

There are many ways to go about this. One step, as evidenced by this thread, is to avoid folks who overprice and/or underperform.

Another option, and one that Michael practices (as well as many others) is to try to provide services to the "community" and not facilitate the profiteers. Is it possible to be 100% successful in this regard? No, but that's not the point, since any bit of effort helps.

Yet another option is to support/create alternative distribution systems. This can be as "simple" as the ability to buy/trade/sell on the pcenginefx forums. It's a lot easier to do this today than it was when I was doing mailorder, but mailorder wasn't too difficult back in the day (as long as folks inquired about the inventory on hand before ordering... if they didn't then it was annoying -- I'll admit that).

I don't have a beef with you, Zeta, since a lot of folks could have posted a comment identical to yours -- you just happen to be the first. The point I'm trying to make is that we can, and should, be striving for more -- the very least we can do is to discuss it. I don't expect everyone to care enough to do this. Nor do I expect everyone to agree with me. Nonetheless, I know that there are at least a handful of folks that share my values, and those are the folks that will help build the community.

END TANGENT

---------

As far as 16-bit is concerned: OK, I created a thread ages ago that listed him as an incredibly reliable, but PRICEY, seller. I've bought tons of stuff from him over the years. I think he should be listed as "Very reliable seller with accurate descriptions of items -- but expect to pay handsomely."

I don't want to offend you, 16-bit, but I would certainly put you in the "over-priced" category. In the past, I've explained why I bought items from you, and why I would continue to do so. Essentially, I said that I was willing to pay a "premium price" (to put it nicely), to avoid the headaches of dealing with other unproven / unreliable sellers. I was paying for your reliable service. I stand by that assessment today. That said, this is far from an ideal situation.

I'm basing my views on our transactions, none of which have been recent... so your prices may have come down, in which case I apologize in advance.

I am not looking to antagonize / argue with anyone -- I just thought it would be useful to put things into context (parasitism vs. community -- where does 16-bit stand? Clearly, I have mixed feelings about him). I have no beef with 16-bit, nor am I "best friends" with Michael (we've had our differences in the past): I am more concerned about the issues at stake, not the personalities (my own included!)

Peace

[vestcoat]

I know, I know, I'm breaking a cardinal sin in the ruthless world of business, but I would never operate a business that way. A "decent" profit is all I need, I don't need "maximum" profit.

Gee, I don't know Steve.  You're sounding kind of like Humphrey Bogart before he finds gold in the Treasure of Sierra Madre!

[esteban]

I know, I know, I'm breaking a cardinal sin in the ruthless world of business, but I would never operate a business that way. A "decent" profit is all I need, I don't need "maximum" profit.

Gee, I don't know Steve.  You're sounding kind of like Humphrey Bogart before he finds gold in the Treasure of Sierra Madre!

. I would love to find a huge cache of hard-to-find TG-16 games at a garage sale / thrift store. It's been a fantasy of mine. I've yet to find a single TG-16 game, though, not even a common one. Who knows? I might turn into a profiteer yet!

[vestcoat]

I would love to find a huge cache of hard-to-find TG-16 games at a garage sale / thrift store. It's been a fantasy of mine. I've yet to find a single TG-16 game, though, not even a common one. Who knows? I might turn into a profiteer yet!

Yep, I will never, ever , EVER become a no-good, lying, cheatin' parasite, profiteer....
.......
......
Until the day a goldmine of TG/PCE games falls into my lap!

OK, just kidding.  Sort of....
I almost became a parasite last month, actually, when I saw this BIN lot:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120085322221&rd=1&rd=1

I probably could have resold that stuff for $600 and made a cool $400.  Any other day, I would have snagged that auction in a heartbeat.  However, it was a Saturday morning and I had $400 in my pocket that I had saved up with the intention of going to the music store and buying a new bass cabinet that very day.
I saw the auction and thought "oh shit, if I buy this I can't get my new bass cabinet!”  I somehow found the willpower to say "No Cody, it's time to stop wasting your money on video games.  Don't do this."
So I put my boots on and got ready to go to the music store.  Five minutes later, before I left, my willpower broke down.  I ran back to the computer and clicked “Buy it now”.  Somehow, in the 3 seconds between clicking “Buy It Now” and clicking the “Confirm/Yes I really want to buy this" button someone else nailed it moments before me.

(For the record, I still wouldn't have resold all that stuff.  I could have replaced my Duo that's giving me problems and I didn't yet have Godzilla at that point.)

[esteban]

^^ goddam! Godzilla + DUO for $200!!! I'm never lucky enough to stumble upon auctions like that. You were so close! Arrrrrrgghhhh...

[Michael Helgeson]

Yea,what I stated at the very beginning of this thread :

There are a couple of members on here that either sucked as a buyer,or as a seller,or both. There are a couple listed because of excessive profiteering off gamers too,but you will have to make  a personal judgment on wether you would want to deal with that type of person or not,or any of these people

My standards will not be the same as everyone else,and the same will hold true for who I am willing or not willing to buy from,some some people on that list will no doubt be members others are willing to buy from or sell to. Only a few on the list are members who I consider profiteers of some type who have been obviously caught doing so.

 However,the VAST majority on the list are members that either do not pay for items,are shill bidding sellers who got caught,sellers who sent completely broken items or no item at all,or members who were just extremely unpleasant to deal with overall in buying from or selling to.

[SignOfZeta]

Whats your ebay id btw?

Heh, yeah. Like I want to be on your black list.

As for the stuff Steve said, I basically agree with you. I'm pretty much an anarcho-socialist at heart, so I'm not found tooting the free market horn very often. Honestly though, when people pay too damn much for something, and then complain about it years later, I mean, WTF is that shit? If these sellers had no customers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I do almost all buying/trading/selling person to person unless its something brand new like Super Robot Wars W, which I bought new from NCS last week. Awesome, by the way. The "community" has served me very well over the years. However, the Community we are part of right here, the pcenginefx.com forums, is also part of the problem. I mean, do you really think that idiots would be paying $200 for US Bonk HuCards if there wasn't so much discussion here driving the price up?

My God people, its *Bonk* for f*ck's sake. Control yourself.

[Kitsunexus]

My God people, its *Bonk* for f*ck's sake.

Then why do you want it so badly?