Author Topic: pier solar hd  (Read 3434 times)

Gillian Seed

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2013, 08:16:39 AM »
Sivak is a super humble dude. I've talked with him before.

Of all the retro indie titles out there, I think Battle Kid has the most potential to hit it big on HD consoles, so I really respect that Sivak has decided to only support the good ol' NES.

Joe Redifer

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2013, 10:12:10 AM »
I wouldn't say Pier Solar "blows". It's a lot more professionally done than Mysterious Song which seems very amateur in comparison. I got bored with that one and stopped playing a few hours in. I'm certainly not saying Pier Solar is the greatest thing ever designed. It has lots of little design flaws in there. It's just not as bad as some of the people who program their own games here would have you believe. Those are the ones who piss and moan about Pier Solar the most. Put your money where your mouths are. Design something that blows it away. So far I've only seen simple arcade-like games and an old, very basic RPG which isn't special at all.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:15:23 AM by Joe Redifer »

Necromancer

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2013, 10:36:12 AM »
I've not played Pier Solar (f*ck FEKA!), but it certainly looks nice and I've played plenty of clunky and far from perfect PCE games.  Nor do I blame them one bit for trying to keep thieves from stealing the rom - if want the game, pay for it.
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Arkhan

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2013, 10:41:43 AM »
It's just not as bad as some of the people who program their own games here would have you believe. Those are the ones who piss and moan about Pier Solar the most. Put your money where your mouths are. Design something that blows it away.

I won't speak for any other developer complaining about the game, even though their comments on the game align with everyone else who didn't like the game, including non-programmer opinions stated in this very thread...

I think being a game programmer has little to do with this and is pretty pointless to bring up, honestly.  Being a game programmer doesn't automatically mean I can't state my opinions on a game without being subjected to stupid counter points like "Well, then go do better.".   What about my opinions of commercial titles?  Am I supposed to do better than those too?


I make goofy arcade games.  I don't want to take part in a like, 15 year long RPG project that starts off as a mediocre fan-game, and then turns into a bigtime, overhyped production of the same game.


That being said, it doesn't take much rocket science to be aware that there are fan games slapped together by 13 year olds in RPGMaker2000 that are on par in terms of story cohesiveness and delivery.  It also doesn't take much to be aware of the fact that the game has balance issues that should have been fixed before selling it.  It's a great looking game on the surface (with reportedly stolen artwork).  Kind of like Lunar: Dragon Song for DS.  Looked awesome.   Great music.   Felt like a Lunar game at first... but in the end, had so many bad elements to it that it just fell apart and sucked.

They had the unique privilege of being able to have a ton of fans playtest it, and the ability to compare these things to all of the RPGs of the era.   I don't think they bothered though.   At least with games like Cosmic Fantasy 2, or the first Lunar on Sega CD, the goofy mechanics (and endless random battles) are made up for with a well delivered story, characters that aren't bland, among a handful of other things.  


Just because I program games doesn't mean I can't state these things without being told "Go do better."   Double standards are for people who shouldn't bother posting in a discussion.


now, anyways, me personally, I am more concerned with the lame ass ethics / actions of the people involved.  You'll note mostly all of my serious complaints/rants aren't about the game itself, so much as they are about the stupid shit that Watermelon Team 9000 does.

What's your counterpoint to that?   Put my money where my mouth is? Do better?

I already did that.  Aetherbyte doesn't create false supply/demand scenarios to cause collector price frenzies.  We also don't lie, make excuses, tell our loyal fans/customers to pound sand when they aren't happy, or come up with stupid schemes to get more money out of this whole homebrew thing.

We do what we say we'll do, keep things up front and honest with the people flinging money at us, and deliver neat little arcade style games for the PCE.   No bullshit involved.

If a problem ever comes up with one of these projects, you can bet your man-tits that Aetherbyte won't be beating around the bush about the problems.  

Excuses are for pussies.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:48:58 AM by Arkhan »
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Joe Redifer

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2013, 10:55:50 AM »
Well you sure seem to have a giant hard on for bashing anything Pier Solar. I can certainly understand not liking the game or how they handled it, but these are things you've gone on and on about for years now. It's like you take the existence of the game very personally. If I had a product people wanted as much as people seem to want Pier Solar, you bet I'd try to make some good money off of it. People want a Dreamcast or PC version or whatever? That's fine. It doesn't bother me or twist my panties into a wad. I'm not forced to buy it. It doesn't invalidate my real Genesis copy somehow. Let them make real money. They have a product people want, that's how business works. And they are a business now. And I can certainly understand them not wanting the game to be dumped. What's wrong with that? Instead, it's being used here as a reason to complain about Watermelon (not necessarily by you, admittedly). How dare they! They are so evil!

The reason I bring up people who program their own games, specifically, is because it comes across as petty. They have had a great deal of financial success with their game. Now this may or may not bother you, but look at it from the view of someone outside looking in on your comments like myself and probably others. Watermelon doesn't go around bitching about other homebrew games. They had a huge chance to with Oh Mummy ripping off Coryoon's BG. When I look at you guys going off over and over and over and over and over and over and over about Pier Solar, it just seems petty.

Arkhan

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2013, 11:08:08 AM »
Well you sure seem to have a giant hard on for bashing anything Pier Solar. I can certainly understand not liking the game or how they handled it, but these are things you've gone on and on about for years now. It's like you take the existence of the game very personally.
Nah.  It's not really personal.  I mostly keep it here on this forum.  I don't go over to their Watermelon hangouts and piss in everyone's Cheerios.  I don't bring it up on other forums I frequent when it comes up.   Just this one.   

I like to at least make sure all our Turbob friends who are newer are alert to the stuff.  There's always someone new here who at least deserves to be informed about the bullshit drama/history of PS.   Someone has to tell them.  It's obviously not going to be you.    I don't mind being that guy.

Anyway, I also bought the game from them.  I put my opinions on their bullshit aside and gave the game a playthrough.   I'm allowed to bitch about the game.  I paid for it.  Just because I make games doesn't mean I won't weigh in on homebrew games.  They're still games, and I'll still have thoughts/feelings about the game. 

Someone at CCAG won a free copy.  He asked me personally about the game itself.

I told them it was about what you would expect from a homebrew RPG.  I left out all the usual ranting that you see here.


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If I had a product people wanted as much as people seem to want Pier Solar, you bet I'd try to make some good money off of it. People want a Dreamcast or PC version or whatever? That's fine. It doesn't bother me or twist my panties into a wad. I'm not forced to buy it. It doesn't invalidate my real Genesis copy somehow. Let them make real money. They have a product people want, that's how business works. And they are a business now. That's silly.
No disagreement there.  The path taken to the current business position, on the other hand...


Quote
And I can certainly understand them not wanting the game to be dumped. What's wrong with that? Instead, it's being used here as a reason to complain about Watermelon (not necessarily by you, admittedly). How dare they! They are so evil!
The complaint is that it's a futile effort to prevent dumping.  It always happens.   Big time companies can't even prevent it.  They arrogantly claimed they had it covered, and it bit them in the ass.   I'm not even sure if it's actually a complaint.  It's more like pointing and laughing because some dorks figured it all out, lol.


Quote
The reason I bring up people who program their own games, specifically, is because it comes across as petty. They have had a great deal of financial success with their game. Now this may or may not bother you, but look at it from the view of someone outside looking in on your comments like myself and probably others. Watermelon doesn't go around bitching about other homebrew games. They had a huge chance to with Oh Mummy ripping off Coryoon's BG. When I look at you guys going off over and over and over and over and over and over and over about Pier Solar, it just seems petty.
I had a bone to pick with the way PS was handled before it was a grand financial success.   It wasn't even out yet!  Back then, Insanity wasn't even out yet, either.  I was still just f*cking around, maybe making a game that would get done.

Heck, after the second print, it was said that they lost money and had to recoup on print #2, so even then, when I was bitching about the newest updates to their really bad decisions, they weren't kicking all kinds of financial ass.  

I'd also bet that I make more money at my real job than they made off Pier Solar/Their kickstarter once costs are factored in, and the money is divvied out to the entire team... so it's not like I'm jealous of the money.  

and, to be fair, Watermelon isn't really in a position to bash anyone, given how their launch went down, along with the rest of the comedy that has gone down since then.


Out of curiosity, why don't you come to SFT's defense when we've gone on tirades about those hilarious messes?   Do you too hate the dreaded Cobbwebb?!


EDIT: Also, like you said, they're a business now.  With a product.   Like any business, with any product, you can expect paying customers to weigh in on their thoughts/feelings about how things are going, both good and bad.

Just like how people are bitching that Namco is a bunch of stupid cock holes with Tales of Xilia on forums, and how people wanted to cut someone because those Ni No Kuni wizard editions got sold to some 3rd party who hiked the price up.

Bad business jive is bad business jive.  Welcome to the real world, Watermelon Assault Force Delta!

EDIT 2: I fixed the first paragraph to be more clear.

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 11:29:03 AM by Arkhan »
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Gillian Seed

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2013, 11:35:41 AM »
Hmm... a few pages back you were saying Watermelon is all about money and now you're making it sound like they don't make enough money for it to be worthwhile. So which is it?

Arkhan

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2013, 11:37:33 AM »
Hmm... a few pages back you were saying Watermelon is all about money and now you're making it sound like they don't make enough money for it to be worthwhile. So which is it?

Uh, it can be both, dude.  

Just because you're trying to be a profiteering group doesn't mean you're rolling in the dough...

You can be rolling in some, kinda.  It might be worthwhile for them.  It might not be.  Maybe that's why they might be pushing for things that result in even more money.



If they want to do the whole money thing, I wish they'd just do something else instead of milking PS for all its worth. 
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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TheClash603

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2013, 11:39:43 AM »
Pier Solar is the Kim Kardashian of indie games.  It is popular just because it is popular.

I bought the game and I would buy another game from the company if they came up with a traditional selling scheme, but the guys that make it seem a little sleazy.  I would hope that the efforts they use to promote the game would also be put into the product too.

As a non-game developer, I will say Arkhan is right on the mark with this one.

Arkhan

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2013, 11:44:24 AM »
Yeah..   I might entertain buying PS for Dreamcast because I like having more Dreamcast games... but it's not high on my priorities.


If they make something else that comes out, I will likely try it out.   If it sucks, it sucks.   

If they continue the patterns they did with PS, man will that suck.    At least if they go superfamousDIGITALDOWNLOADS!!1!1 they wont be able to create pretend scarcity.

Or they will.

"Guys! GIVE US MORE MONEY FOR GEMS, AND WE WILL ALLOW MORE BANDWIDTH FOR ANOTHER RUN OF DOWNLOADS!1!!"
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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lukester

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2013, 11:56:41 AM »
Arkhan, what is your opinion on Watermelon's Magical Game Factory? Do you like the input and invest idea? Just curious.

Arkhan

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2013, 12:02:28 PM »
Arkhan, what is your opinion on Watermelon's Magical Game Factory? Do you like the input and invest idea? Just curious.

I posted about that before in another thread when it happened.

It's dumb.   To me, it shows that you don't really know what you want to do.  Or, you aren't confident enough to put your thing out there.

If you want to ask the public's opinion, take some surveys and discuss it.   Don't let people buy their way in and pay to influence a game.

I mean what happens if I give them 30,000$ and say "make a game about boners and prison rape."
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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TheClash603

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2013, 12:30:33 PM »
Arkhan, what is your opinion on Watermelon's Magical Game Factory? Do you like the input and invest idea? Just curious.

I wish RegalSin had enough $$$ to make them make the game he wanted.

Joe Redifer

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2013, 12:33:23 PM »
Quote from: arkhan
The complaint is that it's a futile effort to prevent dumping.  It always happens.

I don't think it's futile to try and prevent dumping. However it IS futile to say that your game can't be dumped. That's just gonna make people want to dump it more. I don't know if this is something they actually said. I know they said they had taken steps to make it more difficult but I don't remember any direct quotes. If I were them I wouldn't have said anything.

Mathius

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Re: pier solar hd
« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2013, 01:31:11 PM »
I think the whole GEMS system is ridiculous. I am not the first to say this (probably someone here did) but people aren't usually in a position to know what they want. They think they know but they really don't. If Nintendo allowed fans to decide the important decisions that went into making Super Metroid it wouldn't be the classic we know today. It would most likely be an overstuffed turkey of a mess.
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