Zeroigar Translation Thread

[chadti99]

Can't wait for this guys, thanks for all of your hard work!

[Aggie Tsubi]

It's looking sharp, guys! I'm cheering you on!

[xelement5x]

Just saw this thread, this is looking awesome!

[SamIAm]

WANTED: Someone with Photoshop (or any nice graphic editor) skills who could help me throw together a PDF-style instruction manual for Zeroigar here. This would not be a recreation of the original manual, but rather something akin to a FAQ with graphics in it. Actually, I would like to avoid having it be formatted like real manuals at all in order to deter bootleggers

I will supply the text and the in-game graphics. Your job will be to make stuff look pretty.

Any takers?

[elmer]

You can probably guess by SamIAm's call for help with the FAQ that we're getting really close now and just polishing everything up to be as good as possible.

Seriously folks ... having a real artist doing the FAQ would be great ... don't make me fumble about in Word or, worse, InDesign!

While waiting for volunteers ... here's an update on the latest in-game changes.

The speech text has been moved over so that it doesn't get lost against the speaker's picture, and I've experimented with changing the color of the speech so that it doesn't get so lost against the white in the background.

We've also disabled the SEL+RUN soft-reset from within the game itself because it's too easy to do it accidentally and lose hours of gameplay.

Changing the text color is definitely not set in stone ... so please let us know if you think that it's an improvement or just an abomination (you can compare it to the white text in last week's post).

[esteban]

You can probably guess by SamIAm's call for help with the FAQ that we're getting really close now and just polishing everything up to be as good as possible.

Seriously folks ... having a real artist doing the FAQ would be great ... don't make me fumble about in Word or, worse, InDesign!

While waiting for volunteers ... here's an update on the latest in-game changes.

The speech text has been moved over so that it doesn't get lost against the speaker's picture, and I've experimented with changing the color of the speech so that it doesn't get so lost against the white in the background.

We've also disabled the SEL+RUN soft-reset from within the game itself because it's too easy to do it accidentally and lose hours of gameplay.

Changing the text color is definitely not set in stone ... so please let us know if you think that it's an improvement or just an abomination (you can compare it to the white text in last week's post).

I would be happy to do this if there are no other takers.

I Would like to hear suggestion of the format (size), though, so we make it difficult for someone to make an instruction manual out of it (if that is still a goal).

[SamIAm]

You can probably guess by SamIAm's call for help with the FAQ that we're getting really close now and just polishing everything up to be as good as possible.

Seriously folks ... having a real artist doing the FAQ would be great ... don't make me fumble about in Word or, worse, InDesign!

While waiting for volunteers ... here's an update on the latest in-game changes.

The speech text has been moved over so that it doesn't get lost against the speaker's picture, and I've experimented with changing the color of the speech so that it doesn't get so lost against the white in the background.

We've also disabled the SEL+RUN soft-reset from within the game itself because it's too easy to do it accidentally and lose hours of gameplay.

Changing the text color is definitely not set in stone ... so please let us know if you think that it's an improvement or just an abomination (you can compare it to the white text in last week's post).

I would be happy to do this if there are no other takers.

I Would like to hear suggestion of the format (size), though, so we make it difficult for someone to make an instruction manual out of it (if that is still a goal).

Esteban! That would be great! Seriously, it's either you, or it's me and MS paint.

You know, I think just formatting it so that the pages are vertically long is enough. Seriously, just A4 proportions is all we can do. In the end, it's not much of a deterrent, but I just don't want someone to get the bright idea to print these out and sell them in jewel cases. As long as the general structure is such that it can't easy be squished into a square (or whatever rectangle it is that CD liner note pages have), that's fine. Putting a lot of info on one page is a good way to guarantee that.

I'll PM you soon. Many things are happening.

[esteban]

You can probably guess by SamIAm's call for help with the FAQ that we're getting really close now and just polishing everything up to be as good as possible.

Seriously folks ... having a real artist doing the FAQ would be great ... don't make me fumble about in Word or, worse, InDesign!

While waiting for volunteers ... here's an update on the latest in-game changes.

The speech text has been moved over so that it doesn't get lost against the speaker's picture, and I've experimented with changing the color of the speech so that it doesn't get so lost against the white in the background.

We've also disabled the SEL+RUN soft-reset from within the game itself because it's too easy to do it accidentally and lose hours of gameplay.

Changing the text color is definitely not set in stone ... so please let us know if you think that it's an improvement or just an abomination (you can compare it to the white text in last week's post).

I would be happy to do this if there are no other takers.

I Would like to hear suggestion of the format (size), though, so we make it difficult for someone to make an instruction manual out of it (if that is still a goal).

Esteban! That would be great! Seriously, it's either you, or it's me and MS paint.

You know, I think just formatting it so that the pages are vertically long is enough. Seriously, just A4 proportions is all we can do. In the end, it's not much of a deterrent, but I just don't want someone to get the bright idea to print these out and sell them in jewel cases. As long as the general structure is such that it can't easy be squished into a square (or whatever rectangle it is that CD liner note pages have), that's fine. Putting a lot of info on one page is a good way to guarantee that.

I'll PM you soon. Many things are happening.

MEGA-sized DELUXE instruction manual for a DEEEEELUXE game.

I love that idea.

 

Zeroigar will crush all.

[Necromancer]

You could make it the size of the big box PC-FX game manuals. 

[esteban]

You could make it the size of the big box PC-FX game manuals. 

Hell yeah.

 

[elmer]

You know, I think just formatting it so that the pages are vertically long is enough. Seriously, just A4 proportions is all we can do. In the end, it's not much of a deterrent, but I just don't want someone to get the bright idea to print these out and sell them in jewel cases. As long as the general structure is such that it can't easy be squished into a square (or whatever rectangle it is that CD liner note pages have), that's fine. Putting a lot of info on one page is a good way to guarantee that.

To be honest ... I'm not convinced that that'll be much of a deterrent.

Let's be clear here ... the primary person that comes to mind when we're talking about bootlegs is Tobias and his PCE Memories.

There are currently no PC-FX Memories ... but some day he'll run out of PCE games to bootleg, and Zeroigar sells for well north of $200 on eBay already, so it's a potential target.

My feeling is that we don't actually discourage that kind of bootlegging by making it harder for him to take any FAQ/manual ... he's not going to do that anyway. He's already got a "company" art style and process in place to produce his admittedly-lovely manuals ... he doesn't need our stuff.

It's like tobacco use ... attacking the companies and making smoking more difficult by raising the prices both did very little. Smoking only really started to drop off when the customers started turning away from it because it wasn't "cool" anymore, or for "health" reasons.

In a similar fashion ... IMHO, the only way to really discourage bootlegging is to make it really, really easy for people to put together a translated Zeroigar package that looks as professional as Tobias would do. That devalues his product.

IMHO ... that's the only way to stop him or people like him ... make it not worth his while by taking away a significant chunk of his potential market.

So I'd like to see a professional looking manual and case insert that people can print out at Kinkos, or buy here or somewhere else online at cost. Professional looking lightscribe and inkjet templates that people can use at home. Make it so that what he offers isn't worth the $50 or more to his potential "customer".

I'd quite like to see a community-supported pressing of a for-sale-at-cost CD ... but that is almost certainly going too far. It raises too many legal boogeymen to do in the USA.

Anyway ... it's another perspective.

Comments?

[SamIAm]

I believe that at one point, someone was illegitimately selling Ys IV CD-Rs that were a very far cry from what Tobias has been making. There is probably no shortage of enterprising folks who would be perfectly happy to burn a disc, print a manual, and sell it for a modest profit.

I love this community, and I would be happy for anyone who would like a pretty disc and manual to have one. However, it seems a very slippery slope. If we make and sell a CD, then who are we to say that someone else shouldn't? I don't think that talking about profit margins would convince bootleggers that we aren't hypocrites.

Call me crazy, but I think we should contact Tobias and tell him preemptively that we don't want him to make a bootleg of Zeroigar. Naturally, that won't necessarily mean he won't do it, but it does mean that he would tarnish his reputation further if he went through with it. If we wrote an open letter and made a bunch of noise, he would probably feel obliged to reply, too.

It's like tobacco use ... attacking the companies and making smoking more difficult by raising the prices both did very little. Smoking only really started to drop off when the customers started turning away from it because it wasn't "cool" anymore, or for "health" reasons.

In a similar fashion ... IMHO, the only way to really discourage bootlegging is to make it really, really easy for people to put together a translated Zeroigar package that looks as professional as Tobias would do. That devalues his product.

I think that no matter what we provide, most people either aren't going to be able to put together a nice-looking home-made game, or they aren't going to want to try. That is exactly where a bootlegger could say "Hey there! Scared to try this on your own? Check out what I made! Yours for ($$$)."

Making bootlegging uncool is definitely the key, but I think the most effective way to do this would be to adopt an unwavering and vocal stance against it. Consider that Gideon Zhi of Aeon Genesis, by far the most prolific fan-translator programmer to ever do it, has barely said a thing even though he's against repros. I've looked for statements from him, and all I can find is this one forum post. I haven't dug too deeply, but searching a few other famous names hasn't turned up much either.

Until now, it seems that most fan translators have only put a little notice in the readme that says "Don't distribute this with the ROM and don't take credit for our work." I haven't seen anyone really come out swinging at bootlegers at the time of a release. We could do that.

There's plenty to think about and debate, that's for sure.

For a little perspective, you might enjoy looking through this thread and the other threads linked within it.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,17617.0.html

[esteban]

I see both elmer's and Sam's perspective.

I will do whatever we ultimately/jointly decide.

I like the idea of creating a large-format manual/poster (simply because it is kool).

I could easily create a standard-sized version of the manual as well.

COMPROMISE: I think we could have a blurb, tastefully placed in the manual, that simply educates folks about DIY ethics. As I have said in past discussions, the punk/indie bands in the 80's knew that their records would eventually end up in mainstream shops at grossly inflated prices, so they attempted to educate the "ignorant" consumer with basic info ("Pay no more than ____ for this record. You can buy it cheaper here ____________ because _____________.")

We could be even simpler on our Public Service Announcement:

We could simply put a hyperlink to a webpage, so the motivated consumer could find out more about fan-produced video game projects and DIY ethics.






I guess my own sympathies lean towards elmer's approach to bootleggers...we have to (1) educate folks and (2) make it easy to create nice stuff without need for profiteering bootlegger.

I like the DIY spirit of our community, since it is empowering to produce stuff on your own. That's why I made this page:

http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm

If you suck at crafts, have a friend who has more skills print/assemble it for you!

[SamIAm]

I could definitely get behind a strong DIY push. We could make a CD-case-size manual with the first page dedicated to an anti-bootleg, pro-DIY message.

Printing and selling our own discs, even if only at-cost, on the other hand, I fear would have the reverse effect of what we want.

Let it be known that no matter what happens, I'm not going to take my ball and go home. In the end, I want to see games in English. I also know you guys have the best intentions. I just hope we can stay clean on the ethics side of things.

[Necromancer]

IMHO ... that's the only way to stop him or people like him ... make it not worth his while by taking away a significant chunk of his potential market.

It's PC-FX, so is there really a market anyway?  NEC did the job for you! 

Making bootlegging uncool is definitely the key...

Maybe for you, but there's plenty of people here (including translators/hackers) that have no problem with bootlegs when max profit gougetards are removed from the equation.