Top Consoles of all time?

[Michael Helgeson]

I totally hate and despise sports games on systems other then a very select few. As for sports on the 2600...They should have all been called Stick Man games.Well,except for boxing,that could been called Black dots with arms fight. I grew up with alot of hate on the 2600 anyway,except for a few titles,like Kangaroo and Astroids.

I agree completely. My first console was the Atari 2600 and I liked it (well, sort of liked it) back then. It was kind of fun to play with it now and then (like once a month or so).

However, nowadays I would never torture myself by playing that thing. I can not understand how people can enjoy playing these things when there are far better games out there. I realize some people will say the same about NES and stuff, but those games actually had GAMEPLAY.

These old 70's games are  too primitive, and they don't last. At least not to me. I need to know why/how people can enjoy these games. Is it entirely based on nostalgia?

Oh yea,well for serious,most of the games sucked horribly.
I think I liked Moon patrol,Pitfall,Kangaroo,Astroids,and Combat. Beyound that and I start to get really mean towards the rest of the titles,esp He-Man,ET,Double Dragon,Ikari Warriors,Zaxxon,Q-Bert,taht driving game where everything is black except polls on the sides of the road and your car,which looks like a cock with wings attached. You had to use the crappy paddle for that one. Completely sucked ass. All of those titles were horrible,and people considered those the best on the systems sometimes. I dont even want to talk about Donkey Kong or Pac-Man,just horrible.
Pretty much anything good the 2600 had the Colecovision did better,and if it didnt have a better version,you could just use the 2600 adapter and play the 2600 cart,or buy a 7800 instead if it had  a version of the game your liking.
None of you can honestly tell me your having such a f*cking blast with your 2600s that you look as happy as the kid on the TG-16 system box,just aint no way. I know for a fact every time you fire up that 2600 or wood grain VCS you cry at the poor shoddy 5 color graphics and bleep/click sounds,oh,and static,cause it used static as a soundfx also.

I know you used to think the toggle switches served a real purpose,and gave you real options,but then you realized that all it did was make the 4 brick obsticals in Combat change position a tad and make your shot reflect. And who in the hell needs  a black and white switch anyway?? I mean back then there was black and white tvs for christ sakes. Totally useless f*cking retarded. And joysticks that felt like you were working rigormortis out of a dead skank they found cold down by the river,jesus I hated those things. I hate the 2600,old design or newer small useless model,its all the same,junk. I could make better games with paper and ink and two checkers.

[FM-77]

I agree with all that too, hehe. But I mean I don't like ANY of the 70's or early 80's games/consoles. The Famicom (1983) was the first console with playable games on it. Period.

[esteban]

These old 70's games are  too primitive, and they don't last. At least not to me. I need to know why/how people can enjoy these games. Is it entirely based on nostalgia?

We really should make a thread to debunk the "nostalgia" myth.

It's not nostalgia that enables a person to enjoy the more "primal" video games of yesteryear, it's simply an open mind and a willingness to allow yourself to appreciate what the game is, instead of whining about how much video games have evolved over the last 20-30 years.

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Tangent: I have heard folks say utterly ridiculous things such as...

"The special effect in that tv show / film are so primitive, I can't bear to watch it. I can't take it seriously. Special effects today are so good that it puts that show/film to shame."

and, similarly

"That music is so raw, unfinished, and lacking in true "musicianship". How can anyone listen to it? It hurts my ears! Today's electronic music (substitute a genre) is sooooooooooooo much better!"
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Believe it or not, there is a beauty in what we would now term "simplicity." It is inspiring to see what designers / programmers squeezed out of these "primitive" machines. More accurately, we are actually appreciating the sophistication of yesteryear.

Folks who are genuinely interested in the history of any subject are more willing, IMO, to view their object of study (in this case, video games) as living, breathing pieces of culture -- not dead, dessicated, inanimate "artifacts".

Thus far, I've really only discussed the "mindset" that can lead one to appreciate older games. I haven't even dealt with the fact that many of these older games are still quite fun to play!

For example, I love playing Kaboom! and Joust on my 2600. Those are not the only games I still love to play, but they are the ones that I have recently been occupying my time (last 2-3 months). I don't have lots of free time, so these "simpler" games are perfect when I need a quick fix.

I have to go, but there are so many more aspects of this topic to discuss, such as the GENRE. Many folks who dismiss older games aren't the biggest fans of the early arcade/action genre. Clearly, it is an exercise in futility for me to attempt to convince someone who wants to play a FPS or an MMORPG about the virtues of ZOOKEEPER .

I also think that many folks see that hardware (technology) can be correlated with the evolution of a genre (and the rise and fall of genres across the entire field). This, I think, leads to faulty conclusions about the merits of older games on older hardware.

[GUTS]

I disagree Steve, I think nostalgia has to play a part.  I absolutely love old 40s & 50s movies, but I can't stand playing atari games for more than a minute or so, they're just SO primitive, just like I couldn't stand watching an old silent movie because it would just be way too primitive.  I think the NES was when games first moved into the non-primitive era where they could be considered classics that could actually be enjoyed by future generations like when movies moved into the 30s, and the same with music recording.  Nostalgia must play a part since I can play something lke Pitfall 2 or Video Pinball on Atari and actually enjoy it (since I loved those games as a kid), but I'd rather play Blodia than pretty much every other Atari game ever.

[Keranu]

Steve scored the answer when he said simplicity. I love Atari and Intellivision games because they are so simple to play. The games are purely score based for the most part, so it's a blast playing a good old Atari game with your friends and see who can get the highest score. Hell you guys might think I am crazy for saying this, but I think those old 70's and early 80's games are the best game for multiplayer because I'll play those games with friends for hours and it's just bunch of fun, simple, competition.

Nostalgia had nothing to do with me liking these games. I grew up with a NES and Genesis and I didn't get a Atari until I was 11 or 12 years old, which my dad bought off a friend since he likes those old kind of games. There were plenty of other games I had by that time and I was really getting into the RPGs by that time also. But what would I play when I would come home from school? Good old Atari 2600. I would come home, play it for an hour or two, then go do whatever. Atlantis, Space Jockey, Bowling, Tennis, Pac Man (yes I love the 2600 port of Pac Man), Space Invaders, etc... I loved it.

[Michael Helgeson]

Hey,I love my fair share of simple too,Donkey Kong,Pac-Man,Galaga,Joust. But I swear to god the 2600 did none of these justice,not even Defender,and tended to make these games seem worse then what they originally were in the process.... Some people only have the benefit of playing these games on Mame otherwise,or not at all because they dont mess with emulation,I played them in the arcade. ALL the other systems had far better ports. The 2600 was a dead whores dumping ground for bad programming for a quick buck.

I hate when people say these games sucked when the only versions they played were 2600 versions.

[TR0N]

Hey,I love my fair share of simple too,Donkey Kong,Pac-Man,Galaga,Joust. But I swear to god the 2600 did none of these justice,not even Defender,and tended to make these games seem worse then what they originally were in the process.... Some people only have the benefit of playing these games on Mame otherwise,or not at all because they dont mess with emulation,I played them in the arcade. ALL the other systems had far better ports. The 2600 was a dead whores dumping ground for bad programming for a quick buck.

I hate when people say these games sucked when the only versions they played were 2600 versions.

Heck i've found ppl who thought, Pac-Man was only a 2600 game not a arcade one it's werid i'm telling ya.

[Tatsujin]

a possible top 10 list by a PCE fanboy:

1. PCE Core & CD-ROM2 & Arcade Card PRO
2. PCE DUO & DUO Monitor & Arcade Card DUO
3. PCE LT
4. PCE Coregrafx II & Super CD-ROM2
5. Super Grafx
6. Super Grafx via CD-ROM2
7. PCE LT & CD-ROM2 & Arcade Card PRO
8. Super Famicom
9. Mega Drive
10. something else, may be Sega Mark II or so...

 

[Keranu]

Hey,I love my fair share of simple too,Donkey Kong,Pac-Man,Galaga,Joust. But I swear to god the 2600 did none of these justice,not even Defender,and tended to make these games seem worse then what they originally were in the process.... Some people only have the benefit of playing these games on Mame otherwise,or not at all because they dont mess with emulation,I played them in the arcade. ALL the other systems had far better ports. The 2600 was a dead whores dumping ground for bad programming for a quick buck.

I hate when people say these games sucked when the only versions they played were 2600 versions.

I'm sure gamers back then thought that the Atari versions of those arcade games were pretty weak, but were just happy that they had a chance to play it at home since home consoles were fairly new and becomming popular by that time. I actually love some of the arcade ports for the 2600, like Pac-Man which everyone usually dumps. But anyway, Atari offered it's own titles of games as well that blew gamers away, such as Combat, Pitfall (pretty much anything by Activision), River Raid, Kaboom, Frogs and Flies, etc...

[esteban]

I disagree Steve, I think nostalgia has to play a part.  I absolutely love old 40s & 50s movies, but I can't stand playing atari games for more than a minute or so, they're just SO primitive, just like I couldn't stand watching an old silent movie because it would just be way too primitive.  I think the NES was when games first moved into the non-primitive era where they could be considered classics that could actually be enjoyed by future generations like when movies moved into the 30s, and the same with music recording.  Nostalgia must play a part since I can play something lke Pitfall 2 or Video Pinball on Atari and actually enjoy it (since I loved those games as a kid), but I'd rather play Blodia than pretty much every other Atari game ever.

I think you were very revealing when you pointed out that you dig 40's, 50's films . By that point in time, films were very sophisticated and well-polished. For the sake of this discussion, the the 40's in film = NES in video games. I think you are consistent, then, in that you have defined certain "standards" that you look for in films / games. I don't think I can ever change your mind about these benchmarks you've established, but as you probably guessed, we all draw the "line" at a different era.

That is where we differ: For me silent films are beautiful... in fact, some of the greatest films of all time are silent. Now, I think that you'd actually dig any of the classic Chaplin, Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, etc. stuff. But even more serious fare, like Dreyer's The Passion of Joan of Arc, or Wiene's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari would get you to think twice about the viability of silent films. Chaplin's Modern Times is probably the best place to start, though . Plus, I think the leading lady is cute .

Since it's Halloween season, I suggest Murnau's Nosferatu!  I've seen this many times in L.A. (there's a silent movie theatre and they have a live organ accompianist). It's really neat to hear how folks achieved special sound effects with an organ alone (i.e. like the wind howling)! Back in the day, some fancy theatres had a special, expensive  mulit-instrument behemoth that actually had drums, horns, piano, organ and noisemakers (all played by one person!), but "1 lone dude playing piano/organ" is more than sufficient.

Anyway, the point is that it is not "nostalgia" that makes these films enjoyable today. It is simply where you "draw the line" about what you can appreciate. I don't blame anyone for drawing the line at "sound films", or NES-era games, etc.

I'm not trying to change your opinion on this stuff, but I am trying to illustrate that nostalgia is NOT the reason why folks can appreciate stuff from yesteryear. All of us create arbitrary rules. Some folks could argue that it wasn't until the 16-bit era that console games were truly, and consitently, offered the minimum standard of 2D gaming.

Lest we forget, there are entire generations of folks who think that 3D gaming is the standard by which all video games should be judged and evaluated. For them, 2D is ancient, and even the early 3D pioneers are ancient (witness folks complaining about early polygons slowly chugging around, jagged edges and all).

[esteban]

Hey,I love my fair share of simple too,Donkey Kong,Pac-Man,Galaga,Joust. But I swear to god the 2600 did none of these justice,not even Defender,and tended to make these games seem worse then what they originally were in the process.... Some people only have the benefit of playing these games on Mame otherwise,or not at all because they dont mess with emulation,I played them in the arcade. ALL the other systems had far better ports. The 2600 was a dead whores dumping ground for bad programming for a quick buck.

I hate when people say these games sucked when the only versions they played were 2600 versions.

I'm sure gamers back then thought that the Atari versions of those arcade games were pretty weak, but were just happy that they had a chance to play it at home since home consoles were fairly new and becomming popular by that time. I actually love some of the arcade ports for the 2600, like Pac-Man which everyone usually dumps. But anyway, Atari offered it's own titles of games as well that blew gamers away, such as Combat, Pitfall (pretty much anything by Activision), River Raid, Kaboom, Frogs and Flies, etc...

Indeed. Michael, you'll have to concede that the very notion of "arcade perfect" ports available for home consoles as a criterion for judging Atari, Colecovision, etc. is pretty darn silly! Plus, Atari's Pac Man was one of the biggest crimes ... but it was rushed to market for money, not because the Atari 2600 couldn't handle it (gee, it seems times haven't changed that much as far as publishers are concerned). There is actually a great backstory behind this! But I digress....

[Keranu]

Great points Steve and now I could go for a silent movie. I haven't seen many of them, but Charlie Chaplin and some other silent movies from then can really amaze me sometimes because of the creative thinking it took to make the movie.

Am I the only person who enjoys the Atari 2600 version of Pac-Man ? What attracts me to it so much is the weird sound effects and controls. I just really like how the sound effects came out, they just have a good feel to them for me. It may seem strange that Pac Man's body doesn't actually turn when you move up or down in this version, but that also just "feels" good to me also, I can't really explain. Making turns in the Atari version feels smooth to me while sometimes in the arcade version I tend to get Pac Man stuck when trying to turn. Not saying I prefer the the Atari version of Pac Man over the original Namco arcade game, but I do love it a lot.

[GUTS]

I've actually seen a few silent films like Nosferatu & Metropolis, I just didn't like them enough to want to see more (Metropolis was cool looking, but I kept thinking how much better it would have been if the people could f'n talk, haha), I appreciate what they did for the medium but man they are so damned boring.  Dialogue is my favorite part of a movie, if I can't hear the people talking then I just can't get into it at all.

Anyway my point is that I see what you're saying Steve, I was just assuming that since old shit like Pac Man is lame in my opinion that it must be nostalgia that lets other people enjoy it.  Good points.  It's also interesting how age doesn't play a huge part, even though most kids won't play old stuff we have people like Keranu's little brother who love it.

[Keranu]

My youngest brother is the coolest person on Earth.

[esteban]

I've actually seen a few silent films like Nosferatu & Metropolis, I just didn't like them enough to want to see more (Metropolis was cool looking, but I kept thinking how much better it would have been if the people could f'n talk, haha), I appreciate what they did for the medium but man they are so damned boring.  Dialogue is my favorite part of a movie, if I can't hear the people talking then I just can't get into it at all.

Anyway my point is that I see what you're saying Steve, I was just assuming that since old shit like Pac Man is lame in my opinion that it must be nostalgia that lets other people enjoy it.  Good points.  It's also interesting how age doesn't play a huge part, even though most kids won't play old stuff we have people like Keranu's little brother who love it.

Well, Metropolis is not the easiest film to sit through , but give Modern Times (Chaplin) or The General (Keaton) a chance. They rule