Author Topic: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16  (Read 1805 times)

touko

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 04:35:41 AM »
As long as you didn't mind mid-level loading (see: CD versions of Metal Slug) I don't see why Pulstar couldn't work very well. All it's really doing is "lots of animation" on top of R Type. AC games can do "lots of animation" pretty well and we all know the PCE works with R Type.
Because you are also limited by how much data you can transfert in vram,the NG don't suffer of this because his "VRAM" is connected directly to cartridge .
Changing a big chunk of tiles is something like changing the PCE's scroll values ,very easy .
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:36:55 PM by touko »

saturndual32

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2017, 06:27:55 PM »
Tech question regarding those Arcade Card NG ports. So the AC adds 2MB of RAM to the PCE, but i think i read that its not a full 2MB bank of memory, but its segmented into smaller banks. So lets say, in Garou Densetsu Special, on any given match, how much RAM does the PCE have access too after loading the match.

Sorry if my wording isnt correct, not much of a tech head myself, and english isnt my first language.

gilbert

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2017, 08:25:44 PM »
Take it this way, the CPU in the PCE is based on the 8-bit 65(C)02, with a 16-bit address space, so at any single instance, the maximum amount of memory it can "see" is only 64 kb.

However, through bank switching you can choose what it can see at any instance. The 64 kb space in the PCE is arranged into eight 8 kb "banks", such that you can switch in or switch out the content of each bank at any time you want. For example, a 1 Mbit (i.e. 128 kbyte) HuCard actually consists of sixteen such banks of data, so say, banks 1-4 of the cart contain data for level 1 of a game, and banks 5-8 contain that for level 2, so when you're in Level 1, banks 1-4 of the cart are switched into the main address space of the system so the CPU can access these data, and when you reach level 2, the CPU uses data from banks 5-8 instead, etc. (this example is of course oversimplified in an attempt to give a more straight-forward explanation).

For the memory buffer of the original CD-ROM system (64 kb total) or the Super CD-ROM system (256 kb), such memory can be switched into the main address space on the fly for the CPU to "see".

For the 2MB in the Arcade Card, unfortunately, things are a bit different(I don't know why, but there were some speculations that it's related to RAM speed or whatever). While the 2 MB are still arranged into a series of 8 kb banks, you cannot switch in these banks directly to the system's main address space for direct usage. Instead you need to copy the contents of these banks to the 256 kb SCD memory (or for graphic data, directly to VRAM) for use, like those RAM disks on computers, in which you need to "load" the files into the main RAM to use them. Fortunately copying from a AC bank to memory is more or less automated, thanks to those advanced bulk memory copy/move features in the CPU.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:28:43 PM by gilbert »

SignOfZeta

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2017, 04:36:47 AM »
As long as you didn't mind mid-level loading (see: CD versions of Metal Slug) I don't see why Pulstar couldn't work very well. All it's really doing is "lots of animation" on top of R Type. AC games can do "lots of animation" pretty well and we all know the PCE works with R Type.
Because you are also limited by how much data you can transfert in vram,the NG don't suffer of this because his "VRAM" is connected directly to cartridge .
Changing a big chunk of tiles is something like changing the PCE's scroll values ,very easy .

Just to be clear, I’m specifically saying that since Pulstar was done on Neo CD (not just cart) that a PCE ACD version could maybe work (ie: reduce assets until they fit) if you broke the levels up (like they usually are on CD, be it Neo, SS, or PS).

Obviously having all the mememory of a Neo CD would help but let’s be clear. It’s jusy R Type with a lot of animation. So if you break the level up into three times as many sections as the Neo CD version and then make cuts at each section if something doesn’t work, keeping in mind that Pulstar is supposed to have tons of slowdown. You’re basically just making R Type with as much animation as possible.

It would never be perfect but then neither are any other Neo ports from back then.

Black Tiger

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2017, 05:03:07 AM »
Neo Geo hardware is inefficient for "tiling" together assets and Pulstar took it a step further by using lots of swatches of stuff that is basically fmv, but didn't need to be. While on PCE some of it could be done by color cycling one or two 8 x 8 pixel tiles or raster effects.
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saturndual32

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Re: How well would have other NeoGeo ports fared on the PCE/TG16
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2017, 08:52:11 AM »
Thanks for the explanation gilbert.