Capcom rambling

[GUTS]

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same f*cking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.  Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and f*cking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were f*cking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

[Turbo D]

ya, I hate the new nintendo. The new sega is gay too.

[Black Tiger]

But then there was SF2 Turbo, which from all I understand added the option to let you change the speed and if you ask me, that's a ridiculous feature for a separate update and should've been included with another update. Then there was Super, which I liked because it added more characters, albeit silly characters, but a fun feature even though I think this should've already been already included with CE.

SFII Hyper Fighting is a chip that plugs into 'CE to upgrade it just like an Xbox 360 download. There isn't any selectable speed options that I know of. Its faster, re-balances characters, adds new moves like the Yoga Teleport plus midair moves, and has new colors for characters. It was just one more option for people to try while lining up at the row of SFII cabinets back in the day. The only reason Capcom even made it in the first place, is because there was such a demand for something like it that 'illegal' hacks(like Rainbow Edition) had begun showing up everywhere. Hyper Fighting offered similar enhancements to the hacks without ruining the gameplay.

On SNES, all there was was WW. CE was a worthy enough upgrade to get its own release, but Capcom went even further by including Turbo/HF on the same cart. Its a huge leap over WW.

The 'rumour' is that the extra characters from SUPER were suppposed to make it into CE, but they had to put off the extra content when they lost half the development team to SNK. So you can thank the Neo Geo for SUPER SFII. But really, on SNES SUPER was a huge upgrade over Turbo and was once again in a class by itself as far as street fighting games on '16-bit' consoles.

Both the arcade & SNES version added four totally new characters, 8 selectable player colors, a combo counter, recolored bg's with new stuff, new moves, boss endings... even though it was the one version the game mags turned on, its actually the biggest upgrade the series ever saw.

However Super didn't include the speed adjustments from the "Turbo" version, so yet that leaves room for another update; SUPER Street Fighter II TURBO. I did like how this game added super moves, but once again I feel this didn't need a separate update, not to mention it's butchering the title name

SSFIIT's real name is Super Street Fighter II X: Grand Master Challenge. I actually don't like the new super combos the way it was implemented. But once again, this was an arcade upgrade, so whats the big deal? It was the only version on 3DO, so that port certainly wasn't tainting the console.

Virtua Fighter's get upgrades just like Capcom fighters, but no one complains about Sega milking it.

Though I'm not a Mortal Kombat fan, I don't really recall the 2D series being milked. There was MK 1 - 3 and they felt like real and improved sequels.

Don't forget Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Its easier to improve on something of lower quality.


Now I already posted about the KoF series. From '94 - '98, the series made LOTS of improvements and at least SNK actually added years to the end of the title instead of constantly adding new words to an already made title (SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO!). Just compare the gameplay from '94 and '97 and you'll see the big jump in improvement.

Yeah, but 11 editions in 11 years, regardless of quality, sounds exactly like what you're accusing Capcom of. I don't think that any other non-sports series has done this as bad. Plus don't they recycle sprites/bgs in every edition? At the very least, I think that SNK is as guilty of 'milking' their franchises as Capcom.

Metal Slug 1 - 3 also made big time sequels. Though I didn't like MS2 as much, it was a huge sequel to the first one and MS3 was an absolutely epic sequel. Metal Slug X was totally unnecessary though.

Just like Megaman 2 is a huge improvement over Megaman 1.

Once again, I'm not going to argue with you about companies like Konami whoring up their Metal Gear and Castlevania sequels, but I still feel no company has milked series out as bad as Capcom did. You make a good point, Capcom has made quite a few original games recently, but I bet at least some of those games you mentioned will get milked out eventually . Heck, Phoenix Wright is already starting to!

I'm glad when we get more of something good. Like Phoenix Wright sequels. I wouldn't mind a real sequel or two to Snatcher. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Policenauts. I'd rather we got FFVI EXE, TM: Kabuki Invades Africa and Ys IV: Origins back in the day instead of FFXII's and FFXIII's today.


Capcom never made SFII updates as a gimmick. All they ever did was respond to their fans. Look at the response to SFII HD. The only injustice Capcom is serving their fans is not getting it out the door fast enough.

I think that you're just not overly familiar with the differences in the SNES SFII ports. Each was more than justifiable. But on Genesis all there was was Special CE and SSFIIT. PCE only got CE. The SNES is the one console that received as many as 3 games and even if they weren't the major updates that they are... its only 3 games. 

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same f*cking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.

Was it really the DS game or the GBA version? I know that the GBA version is port of the SNES game, but I thought that the DS game was something new (level wise at least).

Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and f*cking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were f*cking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

And now they're more successful than ever! 

[Tatsujin]

ya, I hate the new nintendo. The new sega is gay too.

and the new konami, taito, capcom, namco...

[SignOfZeta]

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same f*cking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.  Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and f*cking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were f*cking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

As for other people making their games, that sort of thing happened a lot in the past too. You just didn't know about it because they didn't give credit.

As for doing no wrong pre-GC...did you ever play an N64 game? Like, Yoshi's Story for N64 for example which is f*cking horrible?

The new Nintendo still does lots of good stuff, they just don't have quite the track record they used it. Sega has been the real loss. They were on such a roll back in the SS-DC days (and earlier than that in the arcades) but now they produce nearly nothing worth playing whatsoever.

[Michael Helgeson]

Black Tiger,The KOF series was more or less a celebration series for the system. You could count on one every year,that was its purpose. They never really recycled the backgrounds.... The characters,yes,but that is simply expected. They are not supposed to change drastically in look. That would have simply pissed the SNK fans of the series off. This is why I do not like 2k1-2k2. I hate the new characters in those and how they look. They don't match the art style at all. The one by SNK I do not really enjoy at all is 2000,because I didn't like the whole cast all that much story wise.Also I hate 2k1-2k2 because Eolith did it and they acted like instead of a SNK celebration it was a Akira celebration.... 2k3 on up has more then made up for those 3.

[Black Tiger]

Black Tiger,The KOF series was more or less a celebration series for the system. You could count on one every year,that was its purpose. They never really recycled the backgrounds.... The characters,yes,but that is simply expected. They are not supposed to change drastically in look. That would have simply pissed the SNK fans of the series off. This is why I do not like 2k1-2k2. I hate the new characters in those and how they look. They don't match the art style at all. The one by SNK I do not really enjoy at all is 2000,because I didn't like the whole cast all that much story wise.Also I hate 2k1-2k2 because Eolith did it and they acted like instead of a SNK celebration it was a Akira celebration.... 2k3 on up has more then made up for those 3.

I think that KoF is a great idea. Although I've never gotten into Neo Geo fighters, I was really glad when KoF '94 came out.

I just think that its the perfect example of the kinda thing Keranu's crying foul about.

[Joe Redifer]

Black Tiger, it's OK when that happens on the Neo Geo.  It's not OK when anyone else does it.  Right Keranu

Anyway, at least the KoF series had different BGs and music (from what I remember) every year.  I did not like what they did with Super Street Fighter 2 when they put in the new announcer who sounded 13 years old at best.

[ParanoiaDragon]

To me the day Capcom died is in addition to these Rockman spin-offs I've totally lost track of, the Street Fighter/Final Fight licenses were handed over to Capcom USA.

Come to think of it, I'd rather play FF Revenge for Saturn than Streetwise.

When I go back and think about the FF titles for arcade and Super NES, Streetwise was just out of place with that whole zombie thing and rap music.

Final Fight Streetwise.......is beyond crap.  It's some kind of wannabe sandbox game, with like you said, all rap music, cussing, ultra violence, the whole game seems pointless.  I'm glad I didn't spend much on it, I think I got more for it, then what I spent

And yeah, Ys Origin rocks, milk that cow Falcom!  Actually, for their next game, I wouldn't mind a new engine, though, I hate having to upgrade my video card when it becomes obsolete, so I hope they don't do anythign too drastic!

Oh, & Yoshi's Island for DS is a new game, it's a sequal, not a remake of the GBA/SNES game.  I have it, I haven't played all the way thru it, but, it IS a new game!  It's obviously similar(which suits me just fine) to the original.

[Black Tiger]

Black Tiger, it's OK when that happens on the Neo Geo.  It's not OK when anyone else does it.  Right Keranu

Anyway, at least the KoF series had different BGs and music (from what I remember) every year.  I did not like what they did with Super Street Fighter 2 when they put in the new announcer who sounded 13 years old at best.

Yeah, I hated that guy. Everything he says is in question form. "Guile?, Win?!"

The Alpha/Zero 3 announcer is also goofy, but in an entertaining cheezy way.    "Go for bro!"  "Try it or die!"


Thats something I forgot about SSFII. It has new voices and music. The SNES version sounds better than the arcade from what I remember.

Also, SFII Turbo SNES has a slightly improved soundtrack over WW SNES plus all new voice.

[Michael Helgeson]

Real Bouts announcer is  a joke too.

[Turbo D]

Sega has been the real loss. They were on such a roll back in the SS-DC days (and earlier than that in the arcades) but now they produce nearly nothing worth playing whatsoever.

seriously, everyone do yourself a favor and do not buy rent or play sonic the hedgehog for ps3. Its seriously that bad.

[Joe Redifer]

SSF2 also changed Guile's voice into that of the new announcer.  Guile's Sonic Boom sounded like a polite suggestion.  Ug.

[GUTS]

If Yoshi's Island DS is a sequel, then it's the laziest, shittiest sequel of all time.  Everything looks exactly the same right down to the level layouts.

[Keranu]

The only reason Capcom even made it in the first place, is because there was such a demand for something like it that 'illegal' hacks(like Rainbow Edition) had begun showing up everywhere. Hyper Fighting offered similar enhancements to the hacks without ruining the gameplay.

Or perhaps Capcom just wanted to get a little piece of that action themselves to make some extra dough . Just joking, somewhat at least.

On SNES, all there was was WW. CE was a worthy enough upgrade to get its own release, but Capcom went even further by including Turbo/HF on the same cart. Its a huge leap over WW.

The 'rumour' is that the extra characters from SUPER were suppposed to make it into CE, but they had to put off the extra content when they lost half the development team to SNK. So you can thank the Neo Geo for SUPER SFII.

Interesting rumor, thanks for sharing that, I believe I recall reading about that before. However keep in mind it's a "rumor", not that I really think it matters.

But really, on SNES SUPER was a huge upgrade over Turbo and was once again in a class by itself as far as street fighting games on '16-bit' consoles.

Both the arcade & SNES version added four totally new characters, 8 selectable player colors, a combo counter, recolored bg's with new stuff, new moves, boss endings... even though it was the one version the game mags turned on, its actually the biggest upgrade the series ever saw.

Once again, I consider these to be small updates and I think this should've all been available in CE. I'm not saying these updates aren't cool, but when Capcom makes more than one update for it, I think that's going too far. As I've said, CE is a good and definitely reasonable update and I think the new SF2 in HD update is a great idea since it gives the game a whole new look instead of just small features like extra colored suits. Granted I think the new artwork in the HD version looks a little stupid, I still think a big change like this is what makes for a reasonable update.

SSFIIT's real name is Super Street Fighter II X: Grand Master Challenge. I actually don't like the new super combos the way it was implemented. But once again, this was an arcade upgrade, so whats the big deal? It was the only version on 3DO, so that port certainly wasn't tainting the console.

As I've said, this update still gives Capcom more attention in the arcades hence more money for them, not to mention software to later be released for a console to make even more money off of. This brings up an interesting point though, I am really amazed that SSFIIX didn't get as much console porting as the other versions. For a version of the game that's like the macdaddy of them all, you'd think it get spreaded on more consoles, especially when it's Capcom we're talking about here .

Virtua Fighter's get upgrades just like Capcom fighters, but no one complains about Sega milking it.

I don't really know much about VF's updates, but from the looks of it, VF1-4 had at least one update and from what I read on Wikipedia, the Remix version for the first versions was given away free. VF4 had two updates and that ain't cool with me since I feel a game should really only be given one update. Overall though, this is nothing compared to SF2 or the SF series in general in my opinion.

Don't forget Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Its easier to improve on something of lower quality.

Once again, that's only one update, nothing compared to SF2. I don't really know of the differences between Ultimate and the original, but it seems like the same kinda small stuff Capcom added to some of their updates of SF2. And true, it is easier to improve on something of lower quality and it's very good for something of lower quality to get updates, but SF2 was of such high quality that it didn't need all the updates it got. Plus I doubt all of those people in the MK hype back when it came out thought MK was of low quality .

Yeah, but 11 editions in 11 years, regardless of quality, sounds exactly like what you're accusing Capcom of. I don't think that any other non-sports series has done this as bad. Plus don't they recycle sprites/bgs in every edition? At the very least, I think that SNK is as guilty of 'milking' their franchises as Capcom.

They are sequels, not exactly editions. As I said, each KoF made big improvements on various aspects of the game each year while SF2 was only receiving updates for the same game. It's like a miracle how different and improved each KoF game is from '94 - '98 because the average Joe would just expect it to be like Madden where it's just new player stats and KoF is far from that. And as Michael said, no the KoFs didn't recycle backgrounds. Even the sprites weren't recycled, though most of them usually followed the same design for some years, they still got some graphical updates. Heck in fact, Athena gets a new sprite design each game!

Just like Megaman 2 is a huge improvement over Megaman 1.

Now I've said this before in the other Capcom debate thread that I did think Megaman 2 was a good sequel to the first one and actually felt like a sequel, unlike the later Megaman games to follow. While by no means I don't think it's a "huge improvement" like you do, it definitely works well as a sequel.

I'm glad when we get more of something good. Like Phoenix Wright sequels. I wouldn't mind a real sequel or two to Snatcher. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Policenauts. I'd rather we got FFVI EXE, TM: Kabuki Invades Africa and Ys IV: Origins back in the day instead of FFXII's and FFXIII's today.

I'm all for getting more good stuff but I feel to reuse something that's already good is just lazy and developers should always be looking for something new.

Capcom never made SFII updates as a gimmick. All they ever did was respond to their fans. Look at the response to SFII HD. The only injustice Capcom is serving their fans is not getting it out the door fast enough.

I think that you're just not overly familiar with the differences in the SNES SFII ports. Each was more than justifiable. But on Genesis all there was was Special CE and SSFIIT. PCE only got CE. The SNES is the one console that received as many as 3 games and even if they weren't the major updates that they are... its only 3 games. 

You're right, I don't know a whole lot about the differences in the SNES SFII ports since I never really bothered with them much, but from what I do know and what you have said, I still feel all the updates should've been put into one extra version. You say it's only three games, but that's a new $50+ game each time. I feel sorry for any parents that had to buy their kids updates each time one came out .