So then...what sucks about Mysterious Song?

[nodtveidt]

According to someone on the gamefaqs forum, several PCE sceners have been "silent out of politeness" on the subject of this game. So if that's the case, it's time to break the silence. What needs improvement? I want specific details, not bashing and nonconstructive insults. As I said there, and I'll say it again here...this game is for all of you, so I want it to be a game you can truly enjoy. So I wanna know what it needs to change and/or improve for that to happen. This is not a thread to talk about what the game gets right but a thread to discuss what it gets wrong. So, it's time to spill the beans.

[Arkhan]

The only thing I haven't been keen on is the battle backgrounds, but as far as you've said, they are going to improve by release time, and are based off the original work!

[SignOfZeta]

Wasn't me. I've never even played it!

[nectarsis]

I am curious:

"Of course, if you're referring to the current in-game art, the ones that were shown on that review of the beta, then feel free to ignore them as they are not even remotely final art; they were drawn by the sprite artist and not by our current cutscene artist."

So the beta is using old artwork..and a lot of it will be swapped out?

[Keranu]

So the beta is using old artwork..and a lot of it will be swapped out?

All of it will be swapped.

[nodtveidt]

The cutscene that plays in the very beginning is Keranu's original cutscene work. Black Tiger's new artwork isn't in place yet.

[Necromancer]

I actually like the battle backgrounds, but I think that the overworld map, castle, and tower could use a little help in the 'pretty' department, as they lack the detail, variety, and colorful look found in the other towns, caves, and what not.  As I've mentioned before, I also don't like how a few of the doorways have corridors immediately behind (above) them; this makes them look more like magic portals than passageways, for you'd end up in the corridor on the other side and not outside if they were simple doors.  Finally, the game is kinda short and the overworld map is awfully small; the EX mode should help the former and add some replay value, and the latter is likely the same as the original game, so I suppose they can't really be helped.  No biggie.

P.S. - No, it ain't me running my mouth at other forums, for there are no other forums.  Who are these 'silent out of politeness' chumps and why are they afraid to give constructive criticism? 

[nodtveidt]

I added a new battle background today, though B_T said it's a rough draft:



Many of the tiles are Seldane's work; I'm pretty sure that the world map is at least. The Tower is mostly my own work, and is modeled after the original tiles for the Tower. I'm really not much of a tile artist for RPGs (let me at those shooters though!). I think Seldane did the castle too, I'm not 100% sure but that might have been lord_cack's work...it's been ages since the tileset was completed for it. Virtually all of the EX Game extra tiles are lord_cack's work. We can bug lord_cack to see if he would like to make new tilesets for the Tower and world map...I already bugged Keranu to make a new statue for the Tower.

The world map is indeed very small...that's how it was in the original. Of course, most of EX Game takes place in a massive dungeon that was designed by me and is mostly randomly generated. I know exactly what you mean about the doorways to the outside though, and I'll make sure to make some changes in that respect.

The 'silent out of politeness' people turned out to be Emerald Rocker and his entourage. I find it more than just a little sad when a community as small as this one that is dedicated to a console as obscure as the PCE forms cliques like that.

Mysterious Song was originally a mini-RPG and that's why I decided to convert it for the PCE. I was going to do the whole thing myself as a learning experience for PCE development before I took on my huge RPG project. However, it was this game that formed Frozen Utopia. The original Mysterious Song was also supposed to have a series of sequels, but since that never happened, I took the initiative and extended the existing game, and that's what EX Game is.

My own RPG rivals large epics such as Phantasy Star II in terms of length, and that was what I was going to do after the MS conversion. Developing MS has been a hell of a learning experience, and there are a ton of things I will do very differently for the next RPG, especially considering the fact that I don't have to attempt to follow an existing design; I can make it up as I go if I want to.

[shubibiman]

I find it more than just a little sad when a community as small as this one that is dedicated to a console as obscure as the PCE forms cliques like that.

It's so sadly true ;(

[exodus]

I would say don't worry too much about people "being silent" or whatever, people will get the game or not.

Looking at what images and information are available, there are things about the game that interest me, and other things that make me wary, but honestly, don't make the game based on what I or anyone else think, you should be making the game that you will enjoy, and be proud of, and if anyone doesn't like an element, well, screw them!

To extrapolate, I think by asking what people don't like, you may simply be asking a question that's going to make somebody feel bad about all the work they did, rather than helping you out. Know what I mean?

[RoyVegas]

but honestly, don't make the game based on what I or anyone else think, you should be making the game that you will enjoy, and be proud of, and if anyone doesn't like an element, well, screw them!

I totally agree with this statement.  It doesn't matter what you do, someone will still complain.  Shit, you could send everyone $10 for no reason at all and there's always going to be some prick that complains that you should have sent $20. 

I am just glad to see that there are people like you willing to take the time to keep the Turbo and PCE alive.  Keep up the good work and don't let haters get you down.

[Emerald Rocker]

First off, I agree with everything Exodus just said.

Second -- and this is to Rover -- nice job at taking an obscure argument that only a few people knew about and blowing it up in front of a bigger audience.

In this thread, people who "stay silent out of politeness" have already been referred to as "chumps" and "afraid to give constructive criticism".  But when people do speak up, they are called "f***ing d*****bags" in shoutbox.  So what's the winning answer?  The winning answer is apparently to pat Rover on the back without questioning anything.  I've never liked Rover, so I thought I was doing pretty well by keeping my mouth shut.  That was my way of supporting Mysterious Song.

For anyone who's curious, this drama began when Mysterious Song was recently hyped at message boards across the internet.  On one particular board, someone outside of the usual PCEFX crowd looked at the screenshots and expressed his dislike of those screens (as well as providing reasons).  This person was treated like an aberration.  Someone even implied he's not a "true" hardcore Turbo/PCE fan because he wasn't interested in Mysterious Song like "everyone else was".

Translation: he was belittled because he gave an honest but negative opinion, and belittled because he's not a "hardcore" PCEFX member.  Ironic that Rover is the one complaining about cliques.

Since I happened to share opinions with the naysayer, I was irritated.  I proceeded to make fun of the things I don't like -- which is admittedly based only on screenshots and hearsay.  I'm not claiming to be standing up for justice or anything like that.  I was angry, that's all.  After everything that happened, the original naysayer probably regrets ever expressing his opinion in the first place.  That's why people "stay silent out of politeness".  Sometimes it's not worth giving an honest opinion, because no one wants to listen.

Fortunately, I don't particularly care if people here think I'm a "chump", "afraid to give constructive criticism", or a "f***ing d*****bag".  I've always had an antagonistic relationship with many people here.  I like to joke around when others are busy being serious, and I do have different opinions about things.  But if I go to the trouble to tell you that I like your game, you'll know I mean it.

I will end by again saying I agree with Exodus.  At this stage of development, this thread is pointless.  Release the game, hopefully get some truthful feedback, and then apply that feedback constructively to the next game, if there is one.

Thank you for your time.  You may now carry on with vilifying me in shoutbox.  Nothing brings people together like a good villain!

[nodtveidt]

Emerald Rocker, I never needed your approval, and I have no idea what your problem with me is. And at this stage, I really don't care what your problem is with me either. But keep in mind that what I say and what others say are completely different. I welcome critique when it's spoken properly, but I will gladly tell you to f*ck off if you can't critique properly. I don't go fishing for compliments, and I don't run with the pack. Just because someone else backlashed doesn't mean I'm going to. I oversee all of Frozen Utopia's operations, and the final word on everything is mine. So if there's critique to be given, it needs to be given to me, and I need to know about it.

And if you didn't want the "obscure thread" blown up in front of a bigger audience, perhaps you shouldn't have posted it for public consumption in the first place. You could just as easily have sent me a PM here, where you know I am a lot. You seem to be a pretty smart guy, though your actions sometimes betray this.

And don't think I didn't see your subtle stab at homebrew efforts with your bogus "Octology" thread. I just didn't say anything because it would be great if it was for real. There aren't enough PCE developers. If you do ever decide to try to make a PCE game, there are people who could help you get started, and I'm one of them.

And yeah...villains always bring people together. Look at the USA in 2001 when they turned Osama bin Laden into a villain!

[Arkhan]

Second -- and this is to Rover -- nice job at taking an obscure argument that only a few people knew about and blowing it up in front of a bigger audience.

With all due respect, things have been quoted in this thread that do not exist on PCEFX.com, so I think people already knew. :-/

I think what alot of it boils down to is that the criticism that has been given (gamefaqs) wasn't very polite.

Words were exchanged and the situation was defused, so I think now that the developers are aware that there is rude criticism happening either in the open OR "in the open" (behind peoples backs in chat rooms and such),and they would like some explanations instead of empty insults and harsh words for something they don't *have* to be doing.

Its a community project! 

And don't think I didn't see your subtle stab at homebrew efforts with your bogus "Octology" thread.

That was a stab?  Really?   

[nodtveidt]

Arkhan: that guy's criticism wasn't half bad, actually. It was mostly respectful, and he raised some valid points, although with a distinctly Gamefaqs feel. But what I want to know is where this other thread is where someone posted negative stuff and got cut down for it.