Author Topic: Sega's best console  (Read 5290 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2007, 01:10:23 PM »
The ADPCM is another sound chip in itself, just like the 8 channel PCM is a sound chip separate from the Genesis.  It resides in the CD hardware and can only be used by CD games (though it would be REALLY cool to see HuCard or Sega cartridge games use extra features of the CD hardware... though that kind of happens with HuCard games that save).  It's kind of like saying the Genesis can't do an accurate version of Space Harrier 1, even though the 32X (which adds stuff to the Genesis) does a pretty good job at it.

But how do you know when sfx are using the ADPCM and when they're just the same as HuCard samples?

Because most sampled sfx in PCE CD games aren't anything special.
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Kitsunexus

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2007, 03:06:51 PM »

But how do you know when sfx are using the ADPCM and when they're just the same as HuCard samples?


Maybe it sounds better?  :-k

Joe Redifer

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2007, 06:02:47 PM »
For the longest time I didn't know about the ADPCM (it wasn't mentioned in any of the mags and I figured the Turbo was doing all of the non-redbook sound work, including all of the streamed voices.  I was almost kind of sad to find out that was not the case.  Anyway with the quality of the ADPCM being what it is, it is indeed hard to tell what would be making the sound... the Turbo or the CD ADPCM chip.  I'm under the impression that anything sampled in CD games comes from the PCM chip (unless it is simply a HuCard game on a CD, etc).  Maybe there is some way to see what channels do what in an emulator?  I'm pretty sure that the cool growls and yells in Lords of Thunder are ADPCM, and they are obviously loaded into memory and not streamed.

On the Genesis 1 + Sega CD 1 it is easy to tell what is making a sound if you have it hooked up with the included mixing cable.  Just turn down the volume on the Genesis 1 and every sound you hear will be from the CD unit.  All of the Genesis-made sounds will go away.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 06:05:23 PM by Joe Redifer »

FM-77

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2007, 11:47:55 PM »
Well you can turn off the volume on each individual chip, including adpcm in Magic Engine.

Kitsunexus

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2007, 02:17:50 AM »
Maybe there is some way to see what channels do what in an emulator?

That's why I love ZSNES and NESticle.

FM-77

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2007, 03:40:04 AM »
Emulators are for suckers.

Necromancer

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2007, 04:41:21 AM »
Emulators are for suckers.

So are CDs.  f*ck ADPCM - TurboChip FTMFW!
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nodtveidt

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2007, 04:32:38 PM »
ADPCM owns. :D

Black Tiger

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2007, 11:08:37 AM »
For the longest time I didn't know about the ADPCM (it wasn't mentioned in any of the mags and I figured the Turbo was doing all of the non-redbook sound work, including all of the streamed voices.  I was almost kind of sad to find out that was not the case.  Anyway with the quality of the ADPCM being what it is, it is indeed hard to tell what would be making the sound... the Turbo or the CD ADPCM chip.  I'm under the impression that anything sampled in CD games comes from the PCM chip (unless it is simply a HuCard game on a CD, etc).  Maybe there is some way to see what channels do what in an emulator?  I'm pretty sure that the cool growls and yells in Lords of Thunder are ADPCM, and they are obviously loaded into memory and not streamed.

On the Genesis 1 + Sega CD 1 it is easy to tell what is making a sound if you have it hooked up with the included mixing cable.  Just turn down the volume on the Genesis 1 and every sound you hear will be from the CD unit.  All of the Genesis-made sounds will go away.


I tried a few CD games the other day, while playing with the ADPCM volume in Magic Engine. They all used only the ADPCM for sampled effects.  :( Some of the games were Lords, Drac X, World Heroes 2, Kabuki Itouryoden and Dragon Slayer.

Which is kinda lame, since so much more could be done with the CD format and multiple sound channels(which no longer need to get eaten up by PSG music).


Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips-
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3



And here are samples from the same games, but with a bunch more-
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3



Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 11:11:42 AM by Black_Tiger »
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Kitsunexus

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2007, 11:16:26 AM »

Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips-
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3



And here are samples from the same games, but with a bunch more-
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3



Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.


It's on par with the Genesis. Did you make that catchy little song in the beginning of the second example? That was awesome! It reminds me of what they used to do with the PC speaker in on PC games: http://www.oldskool.org/sound/pc/#digitized
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 11:18:16 AM by Kitsunexus »

Black Tiger

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2007, 11:59:21 AM »

Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3


And here are samples from the same games, but with a bunch more-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3


Champions Forever is a good example of what could've been done in more HuCards with sampled sounds. But it also shows how the ADPCM should've only been a part of the digitized sfx in CD games.


It's on par with the Genesis. Did you make that catchy little song in the beginning of the second example? That was awesome! It reminds me of what they used to do with the PC speaker in on PC games: http://www.oldskool.org/sound/pc/#digitized



Thats all directly taken from Champions Forever Boxing. All the music is mixed from samples. There are only a couple of PSG sounds in the whole game.
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2007, 02:56:34 PM »
Quote from: Black_Tiger

Anyways, here's some TurboGrafx HuCard voice clips-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3



Those are cool, thanks for doing that.  I feel that the Genesis' best voices (in the Mp3 I provided) sound a bit cleaner.  These kind of "pop on" and "pop off".  But these are definitely better than the NES and I like hearing examples of what the system is doing on a card-only basis.  I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more MP3s of other systems' best voices like NES, SMS hell even the 7800 and Intellivision!  Oh I guess we should throw SNES in there as well, to be fair.

Kitsunexus

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #117 on: April 30, 2007, 03:04:24 PM »
Intellivision!

BEEEEE-SEHVUN TEEEEN BAAAAAWMBUR!

Joe Redifer

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #118 on: April 30, 2007, 03:52:42 PM »
Here is a voice comparison of Street Fighter II between the SNES (Turbo with a paltry 20 megs), Genesis (Special Champion Edition with 24 furious power-packed megs), and TurboGrafx-16 Entertainment SuperSystem (Champion Edition with a pathetic 20 megs). - 6 voices each.
http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/SF2.mp3


None of them sound "great", but the Genesis definitely sounds the worst.  Capcom never mastered that system, unfortunately.  I find it interesting that some of the SNES voices are faster, especially on "Tiger Uppercut" and Ryu's "Perfekshetburrrrllget!!!"
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 03:55:04 PM by Joe Redifer »

guyjin

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Re: Sega's best console
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2007, 04:56:04 PM »
I never noticed that Chun li's defeat cry doesn't echo on the genesis, or the tg16. Does it echo in the arcade?
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