PCEngineFans.com - The PC Engine and TurboGrafx-16 Community Forum
Non-NEC Console Related Discussion => Console Chat => Topic started by: Game-Tech.US on November 14, 2014, 04:17:10 AM
Title: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 14, 2014, 04:17:10 AM
I talked Kevtris in to making us an HDMI mod kit for the nes consoles since he already had most of it figured out on his FPGA multi system. This is just the initial announcement of release, more info will be posted as we make it happen.
Not a clone system! Uses the nintendo's cpu and ppu. Fully HDMI standards compliant.
No frame buffer so NO LAG between controller and monitor.
Resolutions: using ntsc cpu/ppu 480p, 720p, 1080p using pal cpu/ppu 567p, 720p, 1080p Kit will auto detect which chips it's connected to. It will also detect if either have failed and flash a trouble code. Will output only as high a res as the monitor will handle.
Aspect ration will be user adjustable in the menu, seen as horizontal stretch in the menu in the vid.
A few palettes will be included and user selectable in the menu. Custom palettes can be uploaded to the nesHD using a flash cart etc.
Built in overclocking with option to not have it mess up the sound pitch.
Reconfigurable hot keys to get to menu.
Console reset via controller hot keys.
Updating firmware will be done via an ".nes" file, via flashcart etc, if necessary.
All audio is generated in the kit, so it will be %100 digital and theoretically noise free. User will be able to control each audio channel from the menu. You will be able to adjust left and right volume output of each channel independently. Most expansion audio chips will also be programmed in to the kit and we hope to auto detect which one will be needed for a game that is being played, but may also have the option to turn each on and off. Currently working: normal nes audio, fds, N106, mmc5, and sunsoft 5B. VRC7 is still a maybe... 5.1 and 7.1 is also a maybe... Might also have the ability to turn off certain channels independently.
HQX scaling is also a maybe...
Scanlines will be included, still in progress.
Possibly a built in CopyNES.
Easy instal, desolder the cpu and ppu and cut out a few mounting holes using an included template.
Tested with some known problem carts, multi carts, powerpak, and everdrive. More testing will be done as we progress.
Kit cost will most likely be under $150 and installation by me under $100, but nothing is set yet.
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on November 14, 2014, 04:47:59 AM
How do I change my display name?!?! I'd like for it to read Game-Tech.US or similar, haven't used aka for while...
Done.
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: BlueBMW on November 14, 2014, 04:49:32 AM
Sounds pretty slick!
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: toymachine78 on November 14, 2014, 05:43:31 AM
You people with soldering skills make me sick.... Oh yeah! Installation is a breeze! Just desolder the CPU, and follow the template. No way you could screw that up lol :- P
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: thesteve on November 14, 2014, 08:36:13 AM
the NES CPU/PPU are a bear to remove for sure
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Desh on November 14, 2014, 10:17:04 AM
No doubt. It was a bitch when I installed one of etim's RGB kits. I am already salivating at the prospect of the kit mentioned in this post. I am ready to spend money on one right now. I've been following the "HDMI NES" progress with great interest but I like the thought of this kit more since it's using original hardware and the console itself. Sign me up Scotty!
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Desh on November 14, 2014, 03:07:54 PM
My god man. I finally just had some time to watch the video and game capture footage. Take my money now!
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on November 14, 2014, 03:50:37 PM
Marks thread for future throwing if nes and credit card at review tech usa
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: cjameslv on November 15, 2014, 02:41:32 AM
Hmm this does sound pretty good.
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 15, 2014, 02:55:47 AM
How do I change my display name?!?! I'd like for it to read Game-Tech.US or similar, haven't used aka for while...
Done.
Thanks Necro!
But for $500+ I could buy a Analouge NT and....bu Waac haa haaaa I couldn't finish that sentance. Lol
This seems like a great option for those who have an extra stock Nintendo to upgrade.
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ultrageranium on November 16, 2014, 07:45:04 AM
So this mod bypasses entirely the APU?
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 17, 2014, 07:06:16 AM
Posted two more vids:
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 18, 2014, 02:01:33 PM
Last of the 3 part series:
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Ayce on November 18, 2014, 02:05:51 PM
I saw this mod on a website today... my problem is I don't play on LCD or Plasma. I much prefer playing on a CRT the way these games were originally designed to be played on.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: thesteve on November 18, 2014, 02:34:05 PM
then you have no need for it
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: EvilEvoIX on November 19, 2014, 01:39:14 AM
This looks great but I think I just want a component mod for me through my CRT TV.
Title: Re: NESHD - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ishiyakazuo on November 19, 2014, 03:43:15 AM
I saw this mod on a website today... my problem is I don't play on LCD or Plasma. I much prefer playing on a CRT the way these games were originally designed to be played on.
I've got a CRT with HDMI on it... they do exist ;) I'm not sure Duck Hunt would work with this on it (in fact, if it doesn't output 480i/576i, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't).
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: EvilEvoIX on November 19, 2014, 05:12:43 AM
I saw this mod on a website today... my problem is I don't play on LCD or Plasma. I much prefer playing on a CRT the way these games were originally designed to be played on.
I've got a CRT with HDMI on it... they do exist ;) I'm not sure Duck Hunt would work with this on it (in fact, if it doesn't output 480i/576i, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't).
I do to, is a Sony Wega with HDMI and has a 4:3 aspect ratio but here is the issue:
Any time I use HDMI the screen is locked into a widscreen format meaning bars on top and bottom. Anyway around that?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 20, 2014, 02:26:55 AM
Copy of Kevin's nesdev post:
I got the HQ2X/3X/4X scaling working now and made an example video of the HQ3X at 720p. I cannot record 1080p unfortunately so I can't capture the 4X one in video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_v5vvh2h0A
There's no audio because I needed the room for the scaler. Because space constraints have been hit, I am going to stuff another board with a bigger part that fortunately has the same pinout, hopefully alleviating my space issues.
With this bigger part, I should be able to get VRC7 in there too. (VRC7 is around 1300 LEs, while the HQX scaler is 2230 and the 65C02 core is 1320).
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on November 20, 2014, 06:15:15 AM
I got the HQ2X/3X/4X scaling working now and made an example video of the HQ3X at 720p. I cannot record 1080p unfortunately so I can't capture the 4X one in video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_v5vvh2h0A
There's no audio because I needed the room for the scaler. Because space constraints have been hit, I am going to stuff another board with a bigger part that fortunately has the same pinout, hopefully alleviating my space issues.
With this bigger part, I should be able to get VRC7 in there too. (VRC7 is around 1300 LEs, while the HQX scaler is 2230 and the 65C02 core is 1320).
Oh if only I spoke engineering. Sigh.
All these words and numbers sounds impressive though.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 22, 2014, 01:46:25 AM
From Kevtris:
I just posted my first update video evar on this project using my new camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCpwpgRTxcI
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 24, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
From Kevtris:
Here's some example scanline tests from the scanline generator I was working on tonight. I have finished scalers 100% and that is done, so I started on the scanline generators.
I ran into a problem which I knew I'd have on 1080p (and PAL modes). That is, each NES scanline requires a non-integer number of scanlines on the HDMI display. Namely at 1080p, each NES scanline needs 4.5 HDMI scanlines.
This means that the height of each subsequent NES scanline alternates 4/5/4/5/4/5 HDMI lines.
To counter this (you can see an example of what this type looks like, see below) I came up with a scan line generator that "free runs" in relation to the NES video, instead of trying to "scanline" each NES line on the HDMI display. The results of this method are in the above /latest/ directory.
There's also a scanline generator that is tied to the actual NES scanlines, but it can look bad (especially on PAL) due to the afore-mentioned problem. Those are here:
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/hdmi/scanlines/
the filename describes how "Deep" the scanline effect is. 0 = no scanlines at all, FF = maximum.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on November 30, 2014, 01:33:02 AM
Latest news from Kevtris:
I have finished the FPGA side pretty much of this project now. In the last few days I have added:
* scanline generators (two kinds- NES locked and free run)
* menu! menu now lets you set up all of the video parameters from the controller.
The audio stuff is ported from the FPGA NES project and have been gone over again to fix bugs, update old code and all that. Some of it was early verilog I had written and it was ugly so it got rewritten.
This means that the scanline generators are going to have to stay as they are but I think it should be fairly usable. I tried a bunch of "NES locked" scanline generator ideas people mentioned in here and on the IRC channel but they all looked pretty bad and noticeable, unfortunately.
Setting the 1080p mode to 3x scanlines (a "scanline" every 3 HDMI lines) which is higher resolution than the NES and then using one of the scalers looks fairly passable. If you want "real" scanlines, then 720p or 480p modes will need to be used. PAL systems will have to use the free run mode most likely since the scaling on them is non-integer due to hardware restrictions between the PPU frame and the HDMI frame.
All expansion audio is implemented and works now. The VRC7 needs some slight tweaking but seems to be pretty close. At the time I implemented this I didn't know about the ADSR control bit so I will add that.
I have each source separate, and relative volumes of all channels are adjustable against each other. I still need to write a boatload of menu code to allow you to adjust all the parameters though (relative volumes) but the hardware side is all done at least.
Each chip and in some cases sub channels are all individually pannable. This includes the original NES channels (all are pannable individually), VRC6 (individually pannable), MMC5 (same), and the others are pannable as a unit. VRC7 has 2 outputs that can be panned individually left/right, each being a set of 3 channels.
There's a FIR filter to cut out most of the aliasing from the audio and works quite decent. Looped noise sounds pretty decent. There's still a tiny bit of aliasing on very very very high frequency squares but this is unavoidable. The only time I could hear it was when I used a program that let me manually poke the sound registers.
I will release another update video soon outlining some of the new features I added in the last week.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 01, 2014, 02:43:23 AM
Video of Kevin putting together the 1st prototype board using stencil and solder paste, his vacuum tool, and his reflow oven.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 01, 2014, 09:49:18 AM
News from Kevtris:
I have put up a video outlining all of the features of the Hi Def NES adapter's video functionality now it's here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlb0E_jkYts
I show off the scanlines, stretching, interpolation and scalers.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: thesteve on December 02, 2014, 09:23:59 AM
looks good
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 02, 2014, 10:32:45 AM
More info from Kevin: The hdmi mod does not stop people using the analog audio from the NES- it still is there coming out of the CPU and is unaffected. If people want to keep using it (and even powerpak expansion audio or cart audio on famicoms) this will still work as normal.
I just recreate (rather than digitizing) the audio so I have it in digital form. Someone also asked the sample rate. It's 16 bit, 48KHz since this seems to be the "standard" on HDMI. I could emit 96KHz 24 bit but then no one could hear the audio.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Punch on December 02, 2014, 12:13:15 PM
He hooks up directly to the PPU right? I wonder if he could bypass/duplicate sprite rendering (emulating it on the FPGA instead) to eliminate horizontal sprite limitations (with the option to enable/disable obviously).
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 08, 2014, 01:53:55 AM
News from Kevtris:
Well the audio update video has been posted showing off all of the expansion audio capabilities, along with cropping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNBVzGaworw
Enjoy! (yeah the sunsoft 5B was a lot quieter than it should'a been. that's why there is a gain control!)
Going to work on palettes next and flesh out the rest of the menu next.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 13, 2014, 12:35:39 AM
Kevtris and I check out the Hi-Def NES on my 19" lcd tv. We also test the zapper out and talk about what's going on with the project.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: thesteve on December 13, 2014, 09:37:27 AM
wow, havent heard about a ham meet in decades
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 27, 2014, 09:51:54 AM
This is my first real attempt at putting the pcbs of the Hi-Def NES HDMI kit in to a Nintendo Top Loader.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: cjameslv on December 27, 2014, 10:17:24 AM
This is my first real attempt at putting the pcbs of the Hi-Def NES HDMI kit in to a Nintendo Top Loader. http://youtu.be/PS8SZirjtoQ
No point in showing us what doesn't work and a pcb that isn't going to be used. I would of rather watched a 17m video on what to do not how to f*ck up my toploader shell. Also a note on squaring the edges of a hole, you always dremel less than the actual size and use a flat file to square it to final size. This video was a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 28, 2014, 04:49:53 PM
Also a note on squaring the edges of a hole, you always dremel less than the actual size and use a flat file to square it to final size.
I should have said so in the vid, but i'm looking to steer clear of using a file. I've been filing holes for the snes connector for use with the nesrgb for a year and it's simply too time consuming and it will never be a perfect hole for the hdmi since it's not square and I don't want to have to charge for all that time filing it to fit.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on December 28, 2014, 06:52:04 PM
This is my first real attempt at putting the pcbs of the Hi-Def NES HDMI kit in to a Nintendo Top Loader. http://youtu.be/PS8SZirjtoQ
No point in showing us what doesn't work and a pcb that isn't going to be used. I would of rather watched a 17m video on what to do not how to f*ck up my toploader shell. Also a note on squaring the edges of a hole, you always dremel less than the actual size and use a flat file to square it to final size. This video was a complete waste of time.
Jeez don't be a little bitch. Its a progress video documenting what is going on, the trial and error stuff and what not. If you don't like that kind of stuff then just kindly move the f*ck on. You don't have to be an obnoxious dick about it.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esteban on December 29, 2014, 01:29:27 AM
HAHJAHAHA. This is why we need you around, prof. :)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2014, 04:14:08 AM
No point in showing us what doesn't work and a pcb that isn't going to be used. I would of rather watched a 17m video on what to do not how to f*ck up my toploader shell. Also a note on squaring the edges of a hole, you always dremel less than the actual size and use a flat file to square it to final size. This video was a complete waste of time.
Note to self: don't store your egg nog in a dark corner behind the furnace, as it'll spoil and drinking it will make you cranky.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: EvilEvoIX on December 29, 2014, 05:53:45 AM
It would be amazing if they could get the zapper to work on a HD LCD/Plasma/LED. I don't see it happening without some crazy synching ability however.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 29, 2014, 07:44:07 AM
Ha gotta love drinking! f*ck you all if you don't like my drunk self, prof can eat a dick :)
Wait people offer dick eating here?
Let me talk that post off craigslist real quick
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on December 31, 2014, 05:50:10 PM
Kev's best update yet! From Kev:
Here's the 4th update!
Things added since last time:
* DVI Mode * Screen is centered * Pixel masking fixed * Set the relative audio volumes * Fixed extraneous pixels * Hot keys were added * Overclocking * Palettes! * Menu info is now correct * Fixed the powerpak NSF player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9gUVcU1N-c
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on January 02, 2015, 01:20:45 AM
I may have found a good solution to getting the hdmi connector to come out the back of the top loader and av famicom!!!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: KnightWarrior on January 10, 2015, 01:45:30 PM
How much nicer do you want to see NES Games?
RGB is the Max
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on March 15, 2015, 02:19:47 PM
Latest update vid from Kevin:
Update #5 has been posted. The brightness on the HDMI output is a bit blown out but this is because of the capture card. I didn't spot it until it was rendered and posted. bleh. Every time I capture something it seems to screw it up in a different way.
Anyways, I show a couple games (Duck Maze, Orb 3D, and Micromachines) which apparently gave the nesRGB fits. Also, the flowing palette demo apparently doesn't work either. All four of these are shown.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: EvilEvoIX on March 15, 2015, 02:29:34 PM
I may want to do this to my top loader. Looks nice
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Joe Redifer on March 15, 2015, 03:10:11 PM
That looks like it's doing some 2xsai smoothing or something. I think it looks awful.
I ran Micro Machines on my NES RGB for the CD-i episode a while back and I seem to remember it being slightly weird in the character select but not weird enough to be unplayable.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on April 11, 2015, 04:39:42 PM
Looks like I'm about done on the software side. The things left:
* copynes * updating via cart * audio register viewer * PCB redesign to fit in the toploader under the main PCB
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on May 07, 2015, 02:06:01 AM
Here's update #7 from Kevtris: This time I totally redo the board layout, and I took a time lapse video of me doing this. You can watch the board "grow" from nothing to completion!
CopyNES USB was added, a 5V buck regulator on-board, and a form-factor re-do so it will properly fit the toploader.
That looks like it's doing some 2xsai smoothing or something. I think it looks awful.
I agree, it's pretty terrible looking. I posted a comment in one of the Hi-Def NES videos asking what was going on with the filters. I'm sure that we'll have the option to completely disable them though.
I'd love to see proper capture of how it looks handles 720p along with the different scanline settings. The videos of Kevtris making and baking the boards is interesting, but the project would benefit more from some in-depth capture footage of what it is actually capable of. It's the most interesting and sophisticated thing happening in the NES world, but the footage to date makes it look like a poorly setup emulator. Let's see what she can do in all of her glory.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Groover on June 07, 2015, 11:37:01 AM
Its good to see updates on this project. I think this is a great solution for any NES fan.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on July 03, 2015, 11:29:32 AM
For those that didn't see it here is the analogue NT running the hi-def kit scrolling through menu options: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=53&v=CXsZ3LvdfCs
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on July 04, 2015, 08:36:25 AM
For those that didn't see it here is the analogue NT running the hi-def kit scrolling through menu options: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=53&v=CXsZ3LvdfCs
Analogue Nt is f*cking retarded. :P Slap this thing in a real Nes and get back to us. :)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on July 09, 2015, 02:37:58 AM
Latest update from Kevtris:
Woot, I finally sent the stuff off so the HiDefNES boards are in production! I have also posted the final "pre production" update. I don't know how long it will be until I get boards in hand but I will probably post another update video when that happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R5PZQ78NJ0
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 15, 2015, 02:23:17 AM
Kevin's latest update: Ooooh yeah. PCBs have arrived!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFbGa7fdcVY
It won't be long now!
////////////////////////
I have already had an email asking if this means it's time to ship their console to me!?!? LOL NO! I know you all are very excited to get this done, but my request of 'please don't email us and bug us about this until concrete plans are put out there' is still in effect, sorry... Kevin is close on his end, but he will only have 100 kits and we haven't decided how to sell them just yet. Not to mention they aren't really done yet and I don't have any in my possession yet. Nor do I want a bunch consoles to show up at my house waiting to be modded...
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: escarioth on August 17, 2015, 11:06:45 PM
it looks interesting :-"
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: NightWolve on August 18, 2015, 10:25:38 AM
Hey, Faxanadu in the background! Another great product that resulted from the partnership of Falcom and Hudson Soft! :)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 23, 2015, 01:55:07 AM
We have the first batch of kits now, but are not planning to sell any just yet so be patient, watch these vids for more info: First look at kits and lots of talk with Kevtris: https://youtu.be/ocpjW9tnb7w First full instal on US top loader: https://youtu.be/hvBSoZ1MkRk
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on August 23, 2015, 03:06:45 AM
We have the first batch of kits now, but are not planning to sell any just yet so be patient, watch these vids for more info: First look at kits and lots of talk with Kevtris: https://youtu.be/ocpjW9tnb7w First full instal on US top loader: https://youtu.be/hvBSoZ1MkRk
So did I hear correctly? That your daughter board is what was used for the Analouge Nt?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 23, 2015, 03:55:13 AM
Yeah the Hi-Def kit is an option in the NT.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on August 23, 2015, 04:51:08 AM
And here I thought these where two separate things lol
Meaning your HD daughter board was yours and Analouges nt was creating something different in house.
That's disappointing. I had wanted to see how they would compair but in essence it is no different then if you hooked up your daughter board to a NES.
I HAVE PLEANTY NES systems. Lol
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 23, 2015, 02:24:35 PM
Ok the first 6 Hi-Def NES modded US top loaders are up for auction on ebay, just search nes hdmi. They were a bit late as I had a hell of a time uploading them because ebay wouldn't let me upload them and they weren't specific enough about why so I had to try several times. Turns out you can use the word 'mod' in the title, but if you say kit they think it has bundled accessories and if you are listing in the consoles category and don't have the bundled accs option listed then it won't upload. I was doing this from misterlister or whatever that shitty prog is named now. Then they marked them as duplicates even though I used different pics for top and bottom shots on each auction and some different txt in description. I had to add the 3 numbers of the serial number to the title to get them to release all the auctions as not dupes, FK!!!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: sirhcman on August 23, 2015, 03:08:52 PM
wow $310 starting bid? ouch :(
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on August 23, 2015, 03:23:40 PM
thats just a starting bid, not what they are going to sell for. the nt is overpriced as well.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 23, 2015, 03:35:28 PM
Yeah you have to figure a top loader is about $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent or better since i'm harsher about judging these than most ppl since i've had so many. $120 for the kit and another $50 plus for instal, so yeah $300 start bid...
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 23, 2015, 03:37:05 PM
I kinda had a feeling this is where this was headed. All I have to say to that is meh. Just meh.
It's starting bids, not BIN prices. So no, it wont be $200 less. This is basically a dick move hoping to bank on Nintendo collectards and their keen ability to maintain a long list of irresponsible financial decisions. Guess I am unfollowing this project.
Yeah you have to figure a top loader is about $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent or better since i'm harsher about judging these than most ppl since i've had so many. $120 for the kit and another $50 plus for instal, so yeah $300 start bid...
f*cking weaksauce dick move guy. Seriously.
You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?
Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said f*ck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total f*cking waste of time.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 23, 2015, 04:05:25 PM
shit, you could run composite into an XRGB3 for the same price, and you'd get an XRGB3 out of the deal.
lol.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 23, 2015, 04:09:53 PM
Yeah seriously. For the price of this I could buy a toploader or a Famicom, or both, AV mod them, and buy a good iScan upscaler/line doubler unit, and still have some cash left over for good games. This f*cking high priced ebay launch is absurd.
Edit. Well MotherGunner my friend, guess its time to just AV mod that toploader of yours. :wink:
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Duo_R on August 23, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
eBay mentioned on here with high entry bids is a quick way to make some quick friends on here lol
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: NightWolve on August 23, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
That's a very high pay-to-play HD scheme, very high... ;)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 24, 2015, 01:47:35 AM
This vid is a run through of the menu and some features and some game-play on a 120" 1080p projection setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuw6EZdj2tE
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 24, 2015, 02:15:34 AM
The rent is too damn high to afford NES HDMI.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SephirothTNH on August 24, 2015, 02:34:14 AM
Normally I would be right there with you guys bashing the ebay sales. But I feel it's a little different this time. It's not quite the same as smokemonster letting TEDv2s sell to the uninformed for ridiculous money. These first 6 or so pre mods are basically their kickstarter. That money is going back into the project to make more kits. Especially since analogue took the first 400 or so kits.
A 4 to 5 hundred dollar reward tier for one of the first premods wouldn't have caused me to bat an eye. I certainly wouldn't go for it but I wouldn't find anything unscrupulous with it. And as history with the NESRGB has shown us someone was going to sell ~$400 premods on ebay. I would rather that money go to the dev team and back into the project instead of in the hands of Joe Smokemonster.
The kit for $120 sounds perfectly reasonable to me. The nesrgb was basically $100 with the top loader adapter board. And if you watch the videos Kevtris is hoping to make minimum wage for the time he's put in to it off this project. Far from lining his pockets he's quite in the red from my understanding.
Anyway I'm looking forward to an affordable kit. I hope kevtris took that shitty analogue company to the cleaners with pricing on those 400 kits.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 24, 2015, 06:45:47 AM
You're right it is a fundraiser for getting more kits ordered. Other than that we really haven't deviated from the original plan of me doing a bunch of installs until kinks were worked out. I always did plan on selling my modded consoles on ebay just like I always have, but yeah why not do auction and let them bring in as much as possible? Also as stated in the vids $300 is about what it will cost ppl to get a modded top loader anyway since they usually sell for around $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent to mint, the kit is prolly gonna be $120 and installation $50 plus, and I still pay %15 to ebay off the top. The money from the auctions will get more kits ordered so we can better fill initial demand, only selling 50 will irritate ppl too and we agreed not to do preorders as there's always problems there as well. On top of all this we aren't even ready to sell kits even if we were just going to sell the 50 or so we have now. I took a ton of pics last night during the last install so we'd have some to go with the installation instructions that haven't been written up yet. The template for making the hole needs to be worked out and lastly we will get a web page set up with a shopping cart system so no one is trying to send us money when no kits are left etc.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: NightWolve on August 24, 2015, 07:22:33 AM
I'll buy that explanation I guess.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 24, 2015, 09:43:22 AM
You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?
Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said f*ck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total f*cking waste of time.
Yup region mod pcb are still coming, in fact the tg-16 only version, the one that worked fine with the TED from the start, should be for sale soon. When I get time to make a vid about it i'll post it. The duo/r/x version seems to work fine with the TED in US and JP duo/r/x's, but still not in the white pce or coregrafx so it was once again recently sent to thesteve to see if he could uncover a fix, if not it will prolly still be sold as for use with duo and duo-r/x only or not with TED on other consoles. I just keep wondering if ppl will even want it for pce systems since system cards are about the only thing the TED won't do so why bother trying to make it work on jp consoles?
Oh and the NT 'partnership' had nothing to do with me, in fact I wasn't told about it till everyone else already knew as well. Already explained the $300 start bid reasoning as well, scroll back up to see that.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 24, 2015, 04:56:02 PM
I had a couple issues on the first av fami install, but I think we got it figured out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulcF7qGzLAo
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Duo_R on August 27, 2015, 07:22:12 AM
The kit can output HDMI and RGB correct?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 27, 2015, 09:18:02 AM
Btw, you should probably mention in here that the kits aren't compatible with Everdrives seeing as how most people in here probably have them.
deal killer
Ja, I concur.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 27, 2015, 11:50:01 AM
I love the project and think that the auctions prices are extremely fair considering the amount of time and research that went in to Hi-Def. I mean, the alternative could have been a kickstarter with 6 top slots at $3,000 donations or something crazy.
Unfortunately the lack of Everdrive support nixes it for me too. I own hundreds of NES carts, but having one installed in the console permanently is a luxury greater even than HDMI output. I just can't go back to constantly digging carts out of their boxes and crossing my fingers that the connector accepts them.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: mickcris on August 27, 2015, 03:13:09 PM
Definitely lack of everdrive support is a deal breaker. From the video, it looked like the powerpak was a bit buggy also. Hopefully the everdrive issue will get cleared up soon. was looking forward to getting one of these to install.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 28, 2015, 01:16:45 AM
Kevin's post from the nesdev thread:
Well, Jason (gametech) came over tonight and we did a bunch of everdrive testing. Turns out his everdrive works fine on my HDMI modified toploader. We ran SMB3, Zelda, Double Dragon, Faxanadu, SMB, SMB2, and a bunch of other games and all of them seem to work fine. Overall I tested NROM, UNROM, MMC1, and MMC3 games.
The only minor issue I had was reset. sometimes I had to mash reset a few times before the menu would come back up. Once (out of 15-20 games run) I had to cycle the power.
This confirms what I said earlier about the ED working back in november. It seemed to work then and still seems to work now.
Turns out his ED is one of the very first made, and as such it has really old firmware on it. Rev 3 firmware.
I also have a "modern" ED that uses the latest firmware. This ED does NOT work on the Hidef nes. The menu sometimes comes up and the graphics are always corrupt- looks like uninitialized VRAM. You can tell the menu is there, but you can't start a game, it just resets. Sometimes it's showing an error screen I think, but you can't read it. I did not get this version to run a game.
So I took the rev 3 firmware off Jason's ED and put it on the "modern" ED, and guess what it worked just as well as his ED did! So whatever change happened between rev 3 and 4 of the ED firmware seems to be the reason. I put the latest version of firmware on Jason's ED and it failed in the same way the "modern" ED failed.
These are good data points on tracking down the problem I think.
I was thinking of making a video showing this happening.
Regarding the HDMI connector fit, I test fitted my toploader with the cable I have here and it worked OK so I thought it was going to be fine. The connector is recessed as far as it is so I could use the same board on the NES and the nt both. I tested so I thought it was OK, but turns out it isn't. Various cables seem to have different "tongue" lengths. I modified one by cutting some of the plastic off with an xacto knife and it only took me about a minute to do this. I was surprised how easy it was actually.
This board would work fine on a front loader I think. the plastic is much thinner on the back so the fit should not be an issue there.
On the next run I will move the connector out on a little PCB "flag" to fix this issue.
Like any other brand new high complexity product, there's going to be some things to fix. There's literally hundreds or even thousands of little things that could go wrong, so it's not unlikely one or two of these things will slip through. I tried to do extremely thorough testing here. This included 20 sets of CPU/PPU's, 4 different NES main boards (front loaders and top loaders), 12 or 13 Hidef NES proto boards I hand stuffed and reflowed, and 10 different monitors. There is also the HDMI Analyzer that I paid quite a lot of money for just specifically so I could debug the HDMI link on this project. Overall I am in fairly deep on this project financially so I hope it will eventually pay off, and that I will make a bit more than minimum wage for the hours I put in and the cash I spent for tools and prototypes. Overall 5 or 6 people were helping me test/debug it (it wasn't just 2 people as someone claimed).
Not a whine or anything, just stating what the facts are. Hope this clears up some of the loose ends people have about the project. I hope to be able to supply as many boards as the modding community can use. There's not going to be any limit. So long as people buy them I will sell them, barring any parts availability issues.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: NightWolve on August 28, 2015, 05:57:43 AM
So the key point, you must downgrade to the rev 3 firmware for the NES Everdrive and it will work.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: xelement5x on August 28, 2015, 06:07:51 AM
So the key point, you must downgrade to the rev 3 firmware for the NES Everdrive and it will work.
I would assume that would lower the overall compatibility list of titles that the Everdrive supports then?
The firmware changelog is here (http://krikzz.com/pub/support/everdrive-n8/OS/changelist.txt). He's just saying that an easy short term fix is to downgrade the OS, while the long-term goal would be for Kevtris or Krikzz to pinpoint which update breaks Hi-Def compatibility. Krikzz is actually really good about implementing easy fixes like this, and I would guess that he'd be on board to add a menu option or give guidance on the issue.
The key difference added in v4 seems to be this: "Apu initialization before than run the game".
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 28, 2015, 06:41:06 AM
Somethings I want to know, because evidently I missed this initially:
Does this upgrade completely replace the audio coming out of the cpu? As in, does it take over handling of the audio, and emulates it?
Per what you stated prior:
Quote
Built in overclocking with option to not have it mess up the sound pitch.
All audio is generated in the kit, so it will be %100 digital and theoretically noise free. User will be able to control each audio channel from the menu. You will be able to adjust left and right volume output of each channel independently. Most expansion audio chips will also be programmed in to the kit and we hope to auto detect which one will be needed for a game that is being played, but may also have the option to turn each on and off. Currently working: normal nes audio, fds, N106, mmc5, and sunsoft 5B. VRC7 is still a maybe... 5.1 and 7.1 is also a maybe...
So if the audio is just emulated, how close to the original does it sound? And how will this work with games like Akumajo Densetsu?
Concerning the PPU side of things:
Quote
Aspect ratio will be user adjustable in the menu, seen as horizontal stretch in the menu in the vid.
A few palettes will be included and user selectable in the menu. Custom palettes can be uploaded to the nesHD using a flash cart etc.
Scanlines will be included....
Is the original PPU actually doing anything in the end result, or is this upgrade being put in between the PPU and pcb, and does it just take over the image processing side of things? I ask this due to reading your statement concerning the new color pallet and scan-line options and all.
IF so, this basically means the visual side is being emulated by new hardware, correct, not just upscaling the original composite signal generated by the PPU? So what exactly does the kit need the old PPU for?
This brings me to the whole emulation aspect of it all. If this thing is just replacing the original audio with emulated audio, and replacing the ppu generated composite with a new emulated image with scan-line and color palette options, what makes the end result any different then using something like a Retron 5 clone system, or something like this:
I mean, if your not using the original audio or video signal anymore for anything, then the core of the system has basically been turned into a clone system, other then a Nintendo made PCB, system shell, and gamepads. I know it sounds dirty to put it like that, but when you state its not a clone, but then go about replacing original aspects of the hardware with emulated ones, basically that is cloning to achieve a end result.
Part of what made the Nes/Famicom special was that unique sound and look generated by the original cpu and ppu, so why would I want to replace this? Pretend I am a potential customer and convince me as to why your product would be the better replacement, as opposed to a Retron 5, the pcb in the auction, or just going with something like the NESRGB kit.
I initially thought this was just some upscaler pcb that was going to act like a cheap upscaler option, taking the composite video and cleaning it up some and upscaling it while using the original audio as an audio source, but evidently I was way off in thinking that. I should have read the initial postings about this upgrade.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 28, 2015, 06:53:51 AM
The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 28, 2015, 06:56:23 AM
The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.
I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: mickcris on August 28, 2015, 07:05:24 AM
Deleted incorrect info. From kevtris' post the firmware is the OS files not the bios.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 28, 2015, 09:16:39 AM
The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.
I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.
The Powerpak is the only way I know of to play sound rips.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: GohanX on August 28, 2015, 03:36:05 PM
Someone should buy my old Powerpak.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 28, 2015, 04:58:01 PM
The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.
I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.
The Powerpak is the only way I know of to play sound rips.
I dont want to play sound rips, just my actual games lol.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 28, 2015, 06:23:04 PM
Somethings I want to know, because evidently I missed this initially:
Does this upgrade completely replace the audio coming out of the cpu? As in, does it take over handling of the audio, and emulates it?
Per what you stated prior:
Quote
Built in overclocking with option to not have it mess up the sound pitch.
All audio is generated in the kit, so it will be %100 digital and theoretically noise free. User will be able to control each audio channel from the menu. You will be able to adjust left and right volume output of each channel independently. Most expansion audio chips will also be programmed in to the kit and we hope to auto detect which one will be needed for a game that is being played, but may also have the option to turn each on and off. Currently working: normal nes audio, fds, N106, mmc5, and sunsoft 5B. VRC7 is still a maybe... 5.1 and 7.1 is also a maybe...
So if the audio is just emulated, how close to the original does it sound? And how will this work with games like Akumajo Densetsu?
Concerning the PPU side of things:
Quote
Aspect ratio will be user adjustable in the menu, seen as horizontal stretch in the menu in the vid.
A few palettes will be included and user selectable in the menu. Custom palettes can be uploaded to the nesHD using a flash cart etc.
Scanlines will be included....
Is the original PPU actually doing anything in the end result, or is this upgrade being put in between the PPU and pcb, and does it just take over the image processing side of things? I ask this due to reading your statement concerning the new color pallet and scan-line options and all.
IF so, this basically means the visual side is being emulated by new hardware, correct, not just upscaling the original composite signal generated by the PPU? So what exactly does the kit need the old PPU for?
This brings me to the whole emulation aspect of it all. If this thing is just replacing the original audio with emulated audio, and replacing the ppu generated composite with a new emulated image with scan-line and color palette options, what makes the end result any different then using something like a Retron 5 clone system, or something like this:
I mean, if your not using the original audio or video signal anymore for anything, then the core of the system has basically been turned into a clone system, other then a Nintendo made PCB, system shell, and gamepads. I know it sounds dirty to put it like that, but when you state its not a clone, but then go about replacing original aspects of the hardware with emulated ones, basically that is cloning to achieve a end result.
Part of what made the Nes/Famicom special was that unique sound and look generated by the original cpu and ppu, so why would I want to replace this? Pretend I am a potential customer and convince me as to why your product would be the better replacement, as opposed to a Retron 5, the pcb in the auction, or just going with something like the NESRGB kit.
I initially thought this was just some upscaler pcb that was going to act like a cheap upscaler option, taking the composite video and cleaning it up some and upscaling it while using the original audio as an audio source, but evidently I was way off in thinking that. I should have read the initial postings about this upgrade.
Kevtris isn't a member here and can't even see these post so I asked him to reply:
I "digitally recreate" the sound because I have to make a digital version of it for HDMI. The only other option would be to do audio capture, but that is lame because it would introduce noise. the decision to "digitally recreate" the audio was not taken lightly, and produces the best end result.
The PPU is rendering 100% of the video. The hi-def nes captures the digital video on the PPU's EXP pins. The other things (scalers, scanlines) are just added on after capturing the video because I can. I have to "lie" to the PPU to turn on the EXP pins and change the palette going to the chip so that the video pin can be used to capture the 5th palette entry bit.
You can watch the video coming out of the PPU to see how this works. the sprites will be white and the background black. The RGBNES board works in a very similar manner. I think it uses white and grey, though. It also extracts the video in the same manner I do.
The NES CPU is still rendering the audio, you can listen in if you like. The benefit of regenerating it digitally is cleaner audio, and if you overclock the CPU, the audio pitch won't change (you can turn this on/off). If you listen to the analog audio during overclocking, the pitch will shift.
Since the NES CPU is still running the game code, and the NES PPU is still rendering ALL the video (the HDN does not render video) then it isn't a clone system. Adding audio rendering to the FPGA simply was required to get the highest quality HDMI possible. If you remove the CPU or PPU, the device will no longer work. If it was a "clone system" it should be possible to remove either or both chips and have the system continue to function. This of course is not the case.
End quote.
I believe the retron 5 has been proven to be an android OS running emulators, in fact I think several of the emulators allegedly infringe on the rights of multiple emulator authors: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/hyperkins_retron_5_console_allegedly_infringes_on_the_rights_of_multiple_emulator_authors I never heard if there was any resolution of this issue though...
It does appear that famicom kit has a UMC cpu clone chip, which we also tested a cpu/ppu pair on the hi-def and they worked like originals. I pulled them from a brazillian clone I have. The video looks to be recreated on a fpga.
Also, the kit will do all expansion audio chips without there even being original exp audio chips/circuits present, only the mapper needs to be on the cart, but you do have to turn them on in the hi-def's menu. CV3 uses vrc6 swap, and iirc it's the only game that does, but it's there!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on August 29, 2015, 08:42:39 AM
You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?
Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said f*ck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total f*cking waste of time.
Yup region mod pcb are still coming, in fact the tg-16 only version, the one that worked fine with the TED from the start, should be for sale soon. When I get time to make a vid about it i'll post it. The duo/r/x version seems to work fine with the TED in US and JP duo/r/x's, but still not in the white pce or coregrafx so it was once again recently sent to thesteve to see if he could uncover a fix, if not it will prolly still be sold as for use with duo and duo-r/x only or not with TED on other consoles. I just keep wondering if ppl will even want it for pce systems since system cards are about the only thing the TED won't do so why bother trying to make it work on jp consoles?
Oh and the NT 'partnership' had nothing to do with me, in fact I wasn't told about it till everyone else already knew as well. Already explained the $300 start bid reasoning as well, scroll back up to see that.
That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!"
Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.
Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES?
So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?
I vaguely remember you mentioning doing an exclusivity deal with Stone Age Gamer for these kits. If that was the case then yeah you'd have to be just as informed as your partner.
But like I said I don't know the full story or big picture. Maybe you just do the moding and have a back log of systems to mod and flip to keep these projects going and anything the developer of the board does is his own thing.
So let's say you where not aware about the partnership with Nt.
Where did the money earned from the deal go?
Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?
Where does this place your HD NES kit with other potential distributors like Stone Age now that you have some sort of exclusivity deal with Nt and their NES system?
I ask simply because I have interest. This isn't to flame anyone or point and scream like a pod person.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SephirothTNH on August 29, 2015, 09:24:57 AM
That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!"
Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.
Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES?
So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?
I was kind of shocked by this as well. But Kevtris did do all the work. I think Jason simply had the initial idea. It is Kevtris's product though. I guess Jason doesn't really get a say in what Kev does with it. Which I'm not going to judge because I don't know how their relationship is/was setup.
*just for future readers sake. Gametech usa and review tech usa are two different youtubers. Review Tech USA has nothing to do with this.
Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?
This is just speculation but obviously when you buy 400 of something it costs you less per unit than buying 1 of something. So this really shouldn't be shocking. Beyond that maybe kevtris sold them with no tech support intended. Like you can have them at this price but once I ship them I wash my hands of it. Only Kevtris and Analogue knows the nature of that deal. Also maybe analogue is just willing to swallow some of those costs since your buying this on top of a $500 NES.
But maybe your surprised because analogue is such a shitty company? In that case I agree; why aren't they selling the upgrade for $120 or more. The systems aren't out yet though so there's still time for them to change it.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on August 29, 2015, 11:36:58 AM
That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!"
Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.
Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES?
So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?
I was kind of shocked by this as well. But Kevtris did do all the work. I think Jason simply had the initial idea. It is Kevtris's product though. I guess Jason doesn't really get a say in what Kev does with it. Which I'm not going to judge because I don't know how their relationship is/was setup.
*just for future readers sake. Gametech usa and review tech usa are two different youtubers. Review Tech USA has nothing to do with this.
Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?
This is just speculation but obviously when you buy 400 of something it costs you less per unit than buying 1 of something. So this really shouldn't be shocking. Beyond that maybe kevtris sold them with no tech support intended. Like you can have them at this price but once I ship them I wash my hands of it. Only Kevtris and Analogue knows the nature of that deal. Also maybe analogue is just willing to swallow some of those costs since your buying this on top of a $500 NES.
But maybe your surprised because analogue is such a shitty company? In that case I agree; why aren't they selling the upgrade for $120 or more. The systems aren't out yet though so there's still time for them to change it.
Lol man here I am mixing up YouTube channels. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 29, 2015, 12:07:12 PM
With the audio then I guess my concern would be just how close to the original it sounds. I'm fairly picky about this. So are many other people. Its not much different the with the Genesis early Model 1 revisions audio compared to the later ones or the Model 2, or compared to emulation. TBH I hate most of the Model 2 revisions audio, along with emulators, but you will still have people insisting it sounds fine, and close to the original, when it does not in any way, shape, or form. It is only passable at best when compared to initial Model 1 revisions.
So I guess this is something that would be interesting to see/listen to some side by sides done. This includes running games like Akumajo Densetsu and FDS games running off a legit FDS, to compare the audio quality to.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: sirhcman on August 30, 2015, 02:09:34 PM
It appears these are selling for more than what the NT with HD upgrade is/was for the most part. Looks like he just posted another batch to sell on ebay as well. Personally I can't believe people would waste that much on this.
(http://i.imgur.com/X776r4R.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 30, 2015, 03:25:26 PM
Its a bullshit cash grab, and I suspect the auctions will continue to happen for a little while as long as the stupid high bids continue. I don't like how Game-Tech pretends to not know whats going on with the business side of things on this when he is the one doing these cash grab auctions for Kevtris and spams multiple forums about this thing. The fact that he thinks we cant see through that kind of crap is kind of insulting. You don't go out of your way like this for someone unless you have a decent stake in the profits.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: wildfruit on August 30, 2015, 08:24:05 PM
What happened to when you want to start a business do it yourself? Go to the bank, show bank manager your business proposal and ask for a start up loan. Why does everything now have to be kickstarter or first consumers test bed? Pisses me off.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 03:03:03 AM
What happened to when you want to start a business do it yourself? Go to the bank, show bank manager your business proposal and ask for a start up loan. Why does everything now have to be kickstarter or first consumers test bed? Pisses me off.
With that there are major consequences to your credit rating, etc, if you fail. On kickstarter or like using idiots as your test subjects on an unproven product, there is less financial risk.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 31, 2015, 03:10:43 AM
Some of the Analogue NT's have made it out to customers. Here's a link to one guy's review of it with the Hi-Def kit installed: http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2015/08/analogue-nt-hdmi-first-look.html
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 03:31:04 AM
Some of the Analogue NT's have made it out to customers. Here's a link to one guy's review of it with the Hi-Def kit installed: http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2015/08/analogue-nt-hdmi-first-look.html
Hardly anyone cares about Analogue NT products here. Jesus, you are pretty out of touch with this forum...
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 31, 2015, 03:45:36 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 03:59:29 AM
You dont get it though. No one is pleased with the stupid auctions you are running, and the whole thing about thinking we are naive about you and Kevtris and the financial side of things. Combine this with even slight promoting of another item here that not many give a flying f*ck about, other then collectards, and things start to stack up that will start to piss people off. It's like you don't even realize you're poking a hornets nest.
People pretty much expected this to just be a kit that would be released that they could buy and install themselves, similar to the NESRGB. Instead you guys are doing a totally ridiculous cash grab launch, forcing people who want it to have to pick between your ebay auctions or an Analogue NT product. The only people you are winning over at this point are idiots with cash to burn. Everyone else is just like wtf....
As for the free slight advertising for the NT, seriously, look at this thread first before deciding to promote that item:
I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at that and realize its not smart to promote the NT around here, regardless of if it uses your product or not (and god forbid you make the same mistake on the Neo forums). Worse so in fact that you chose to supply Analogue instead of just providing said boards to normal users so they could just buy them outright and install them, or choose a person of their liking to install them for them in their own systems.
What also kind of bothers me is there is not really much of a field test going on with this final batch of boards you got in. Honestly before even doing a launch there should have been some 4-5 month quality testing done. Instead you're using analogue customers and ebay idiots to test the product. That in itself is pretty scary given the price and the fact that youre not advertising a free extended warranty on the auctions (like a 6 month return/service policy).
Also, still waiting for that sound comparison video....
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esteban on August 31, 2015, 04:35:05 AM
I, too, am curious to hear the sound comparison video/MP3
I recognize that tough choices were made for the audio concerning HDMI...I am genuinely interested in the final output.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 31, 2015, 04:38:06 AM
Yeah i'm not sure what the best way is to do a sound comparison. I doubt I have the proper equipment. If I just did it with what I have, I doubt it would be quality enough for ppl that could really distinguish between them if there was anything to hear. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 05:15:36 AM
Yeah i'm not sure what the best way is to do a sound comparison. I doubt I have the proper equipment. If I just did it with what I have, I doubt it would be quality enough for ppl that could really distinguish between them if there was anything to hear. Any ideas?
Any given tv with HDMI that is worth its weight in gold should have RCA audio out. Unless your Tv has a surround or 3D audio feature turned on, the audio should be untouched and come out line level. You could use that as a source to record audio off a Hi-Def Nes from, and just use the RCA audio output on a regular Nes or AV modded Famicom for test.
Test games like an original cart of Akumajo Densetsu. The actual AV Famicom has issues with Akumajo Densetsu unless you do a fix, so if you plan to use a AV Famicom for recording normal audio out, do the fix prior. Be sure to use a wide varity of carts, like TMNT 2 Arcade Game, Rygar, Super Mario 3, etc. This way people can compare the pitch, bass quality, etc.
I could even record games I have here audio wise for your comparison. The only thing I would not be able to record is the HI-DEF Nes audio out, for obvious reasons (Though my Toshiba has RCA audio out, I dont have a Hi-Def here to record).
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: cjameslv on August 31, 2015, 06:32:06 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 06:44:59 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on August 31, 2015, 07:26:36 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.
You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on August 31, 2015, 07:53:43 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.
You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.
Copy pasting spammage across multiple forums is EXACTLY what he's doing.
But we have several members (like BigAl) who only drop in to cross-spam their sales and misc content. Many of which are advertising high priced items. This thread is no different.
Most people are only here to buy/sell/trade anyway, while the minority of us actually talk about PC Engine and games.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 31, 2015, 07:56:23 AM
I just remembered Kevin's first vid was a capture, mostly to show it working in 720p, but it prolly has a better audio track than i'll get with my equipment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9s_Lkl2mAY
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 08:06:28 AM
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.
You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.
Seriously??? Man are you f*cking blind or got tunnel vision directed at only my account postings.... Go back and read. Multiple people are irked or feeling questionable/suspicious about the auction shit, the multiple forum spamming (which is why I mentioned he best not do it on the Neo forums), no extended quality test, and other things. I'm just the only one posting about it this afternoon. You're f*cking quick to post, but dont take the time to figure out wtf is going on. Lol @ you.
I just remembered Kevin's first vid was a capture, mostly to show it working in 720p, but it prolly has a better audio track than i'll get with my equipment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9s_Lkl2mAY
Thats cool, but you need a better selection then that for audio comparison. Try to put something together and get back with us on it.
I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in Pcenginefx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat... Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.
Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.
The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.
You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.
Copy pasting spammage across multiple forums is EXACTLY what he's doing.
But we have several members (like BigAl) who only drop in to cross-spam their sales and misc content. Many of which are advertising high priced items. This thread is no different.
Most people are only here to buy/sell/trade anyway, while the minority of us actually talk about PC Engine and games.
These days it really seems like it. The selling/advertising shits gotten old. Me thinks a small extended vacation from the forum now and then is coming up soon. Less log ins so that maybe there will be new content when I do jump back in.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on August 31, 2015, 08:22:40 AM
Thats cool, but you need a better selection then that for audio comparison. Try to put something together and get back with us on it.
I'll see if he can do some other game captures. Might even try to get a 1080p capture card. Did the smb2 vid sound good to you?
Yes actually it did out of my LCD speakers. Id need to listen to a real cart of it though to compare it to and to use better speakers then the Toshiba stock ones. On something like a sound comparison I'd rather use headphones or my Altec Lansings. I don't have a SMB2 cart on hand though. I did not bother to rebuy the game since I have Mario All Stars, so comparing that game is not possible for me. I could actually give you a list of what I have, and make audio recordings of them for you, and you could do ones of said titles on the HDMI side of things to compare to.
Per above prior comment though, you guys need to seriously consider offering a free 6 month service warranty on the ebay systems you're selling. Since you have not done an extended quality test on the newest pcb launch batches and people are having to pay so much to access this product, the current situation is not cool. Don't use your customers as guinea pigs and not provide something like that.
This is new tech you are introducing, and you are rushing the release without proper testing of the final product. You owe your customers some kind of guarantee of service in this case. It doesn't have to be a "100 percent satisfied or your money back" kind of situation, but do some kind of free 6 month service warranty.
You went out of your way to rag on Drakon and expose his poor service and him not guaranteeing his product with free reliable repairs, so I mean its time for you to do the same here. And not behind the scenes either. Put it in your auctions publicly or whatever to build customer confidence in this product. If you are completely confident in the product, you would have no problem doing this.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 31, 2015, 09:14:34 AM
I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..
Title: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esteban on August 31, 2015, 11:21:29 AM
I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..
I hear you! :)
NO NEED FOR ANY IF THIS FINNICKY CRAP I am old-school, so I feel the same way about RGB mods! (on economic and philosophical grounds).
CURIOSITY and/or CONVENIENCE Of course, I do understand the desire to simplify your life and use ONE MONITOR for all entertainment needs (in this case, HDTV). Folks are willing to compromise in the name of convenience.
PERSONALLY After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: cjameslv on August 31, 2015, 11:45:58 AM
PERSONALLY After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.
Since most of the older systems output rbg natively (although or obey needs a slight boost to these signals) it is amazing to see what difference it makes. Nothing beats obeying in rgb!
I personally don't like the idea of nes on a lcd, how retro can the experience be if its in hd? At that point i feel you might as well go emulation (xbox, mame, ect) and play it. I experimented quite a long time with lcds and retro gaming and imo they don't mix. So crt for me!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 12:05:00 PM
Recorded it this afternoon. You can start with this Game-Tech for making a comparison video.
Per the above statements, CRT's wont be around forever, nor will the repair techs that are still willing to service them. Its at that point now where it is a good idea to invest in alternate methods, whether that be linedoubler/upscaler units, component video mods, or HDMI mods to use on current monitor technology. I have my own crt monitors here, but I am not going to fool myself, having the ability to properly display the stuff on a decent LCD for a back up plan is kind of a must if you plan to game in the relatively long term.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: wildfruit on August 31, 2015, 12:22:54 PM
I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"? Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console. If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 12:25:28 PM
I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"? Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console. If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.
Crisper and better on original hardware, or on the Hi-Def Nes? And yeah, RGB and even S-video on Genesis/Mega Drive, and Master System also, is pretty damn nice.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: kevtris on August 31, 2015, 12:33:37 PM
Heya, I decided to join the forum after hearing from game-tech.us about this thread to clear up some things.
We discussed the idea of making an HDMI adapter for the NES the first time we got together. I then went home that night and sketched up a quickie design and got to work in Altium making some PCBs and in Quartus writing some code. 2 months or so after the initial get together I had some working hardware.
Yes, this board is included in the Analogue nt, but gametech had nothing to do with this, in fact I couldn't tell him or anyone about it until after it was released. There's no "conspiracy" of any kind involved.
As to the audio issues, there were only two ways to handle this- either analog-capture the audio and put up with noise on the audio, and various expansion chip level problems, or recreate the audio internally digitally.
I chose to simulate the audio hardware internally. I am very sensitive to the quality of the audio, so this was not a decision I chose lightly. I put a lot of time and effort into getting good audio, including a 256 tap FIR filter to eliminate aliasing, so stuff like the looped noise sounds right on games such as Solstice. The existing analog audio coming out of the NES CPU is still there, it didn't go away.
The expansion chips must be manually turned on in the menu for Fami carts and on the flash carts too, but on the Powerpak, I modified the NSF player so that it will properly enable and disable the expansion chips for you automatically. I was thinking of modding the loader code so when a game that uses expansion audio loads, it automagically turns the proper chips on/off.
There's no way to "autodetect" what game is running to turn the right chips on/off. (Well nothing I could do on the FPGA easily). Since there's fairly few games with expansion audio, this should only be a minor inconvenience. The NSF player on the Powerpak is where I do most of my expansion chip listening and fixing it was easy.
Because the sound chips can be turned on from cartridge space, this means in the future homebrew games could turn on and utilize the expansion chip hardware on the adapter.
As to my investment, I have a huge monetary investment in the project- about 5 figures of investment. It's going to take selling a lot of boards to pay back the money I am out of pocket, and then more to pay me even minimum wage for the couple thousand hours of code/design that's in it. I deliberately chose NOT to kickstarter the project because I wanted to finish it on my own schedule and without being beholden to anyone.
I put a lot of effort and time into testing this mod as thoroughly as possible. 6 or 7 people were involved directly in beating on the hardware and software to test it; I have 20 sets of CPUs and PPUs, and I tried it on four different NES main boards, both toploaders and front loaders. I tested it on 10 different monitors, and spent almost $4000 to buy an HDMI protocol analyzer specifically for this project so I could make sure the signal going out fully conforms to the standard to ensure it was going to work on everybody's TV. I had two runs of prototypes and built around 12 sets of PCBs by hand using a toaster oven reflow rig I designed and built.
You will be hard pressed to find a more thoroughly tested and better designed "hobbyist level" project than this one I suspect. There's probably hundreds or thousands of things that can go wrong on the release of a complex project like this, so it's inevitable that one or two things slipped through.
The first is the connector is a bit deep on the toploader. I tested this here, but it seems different cable makers have different "tongue" lengths on the cable ends, so my cable worked fine but someone else's might not. I knew it was a bit close but it was a concession to make it fit in the nt as well as the toploader, making it cheaper to do boards since they'd both be the same.
The other is the everdrive issues. We did a bunch of testing the other day and Jason's ED works fine on my HDMI modded toploader here. Turns out it's the version of the firmware on the SD card. Using later firmware than 3 doesn't work. This is why there were conflicting things like how it was mentioned the ED worked then later on in my videos I said it didn't.
Turns out the ED I have has version 10+ firmware on it. When I dropped the 3x version from Jason's ED onto this ED, it started working too. Reset was a bit flaky still but the ED functioned and I proceeded to play mario 3, zelda, and some others.
The main reason the boards aren't for sale right this second is there's no installation guide yet, and I am still rounding up things like headers and the foam and cables so people can do the install. There's not going to be a shortage of boards- I will make boards as long as people buy them, barring anything outside my control such as parts availability issues. That and it'd be nice to have a website set up to make it easier to buy them. Of course in the future I might just stop selling if volume drops to zero, but I doubt that will happen for a long time.
The money made during the sale of the first batch of units is going to get plowed back in immediately to buy the next round of boards.
I hope this clears up the issues around it. Long story short, I took a large financial risk to create this device, and hope some day that I will eventually get paid back what I put in to make it. If I was doing this to make money I wouldn't be wasting my time making HDMI mods for 20+ year old obsolete videogame consoles. (not that there is anything wrong with that- I wouldn't have made this mod if I didn't love playing NES games).
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: wildfruit on August 31, 2015, 12:33:42 PM
I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"? Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console. If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.
Crisper and better on original hardware, or on the Hi-Def Nes? And yeah, RGB and even S-video on Genesis/Mega Drive, and Master System also, is pretty damn nice.
Crisper on the hi def nes. I don't know. I'm not very good and translating what I'm thinking to words and I haven't played smb2 for years since some chump stole my nes, but reaching back, I think it sounds a tiny bit less muffled but in a good way. Doesn't sound distorted or bad pitch to me. Hmmm maybe a good analogy would be listening to a track at 128kb and then listening to same track at 320kb or flac and feeling the difference. Side note: Sometimes bit rate means naff all but I URGE you to listen to Minecraft alpha in flac. Beautiful. I'm still not sold on the whole package / method, but sound wise seems decent.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 12:57:38 PM
Really cool and all, but right now you did not do what seems to be a proper test run on your launch batch of pcbs. You basically got them, slapped them into consoles and listed them systems up for sale after some basic test. So again, you and Game-Tech need to work out some kind of free 6 month service warranty for your ebay buyers, etc. If you are truely confident in this batch of hardware up on ebay, then this should not be a problem. But I have as of yet to see Game-Tech, or you, actually say "Yes, we will do this to make sure no one gets screwed".
The bit you state about the audio is cool, but a comparison video would be nicer at this point. Please get to work on that. I have already provided you with certain audio tracks, and you can always choose to add more to that also.
The internal financial mess with you both and Analogue is your own business, even if it sounds completely ridiculous. But frankly you should not be surprised at all by the disappointment of some of us in how this launch was handled. You basically forced anyone who had a system already who wanted this mod right now to partake in high dollar auctions, forcing them to invest in another system they otherwise wouldn't need, or to go buy a Analogue NT. In addition to this, its an untested launch batch, and no warranty was stated as included or implied in the auction details. The 14 day return on ebay is just too limited for this kind of thing.
EDIT: And I think the other thing that kind of makes it salt on a open wound is the whole auction thing with the bid amounts that were set kind of implies that you're of the thinking that something like a Hi-Def Nes is worth more dollar wise then something like a RGB region modded Duo-R or modded AES system, on this forum of all places.
Only that special breed of irresponsible Nes collectards would spend that kind of cash (I feel sorry for these kinda guys, they usually just cant help their-selves or don't know any better). And these are the types that you basically handed the dictation of the going price over to on the open market, instead of just setting your own set asking price to begin with. When ever these guys go to flip their systems after they get buyers remorse, they are going to go off and list them for exactly what they paid you, if not more, thinking its totally worth $500-700.
Everyone else is going to be like, umm, no, for that kind of cash I can buy a Nec system, a Neo Geo, or a RGB/Svideo modded Nes and a XRGB or Iscan upscaler and a few games.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: kevtris on August 31, 2015, 01:24:18 PM
But frankly you should not be surprised at all by the disappointment of some of us in how this launch was handled. You basically forced anyone who had a system already who wanted this mod right now to partake in high dollar auctions, forcing them to invest in another system they otherwise wouldn't need, or to go buy a Analogue NT.
ooooor, you could just not buy either and wait until the boards are available for sale and install one yourself, or pay someone to install it into your system. Like anything else of this magnitude, it takes awhile to ramp up production and all the back end things like install guides. Unless you are paying me directly to advance the project, then I do not bend to your will.
So far, you're the only "disappointed" person I know of on all the forums I inhabit regarding this adapter. Everyone else has been very supporting of it and me. I am doing this for "fun" and to breathe new life into the system so it can be enjoyed on the latest and newest TVs as well as the old CRT standby.
As for testing, apparently you didn't watch my video of me programming/testing the adapters, or read what I wrote about the time I spent testing things during development and the equipment I purchased.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
You're right, I don't watch your videos. Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch, even from a techie point of view. As is, Game_Tech has been your spin guy/forum spammer, thankfully so it seems. So most of what is known has been coming from him on here, not you. So if anyone is at fault for that, its more on you then me or anyone else here. When I think of Hi-Def Nes, I think of Game-Tech, his forum spamming, and the current auctions, not Kevtris.
As for testing, again, what you did not do was put weeks into testing this final launch batch of boards and systems. You put weeks and months into testing the prior stuff. Launch stuff still should spend some time being tested too. Keep trying to avoid the subject, but it really is rather disturbing that you and Game-Tech are skipping a reasonable time frame for testing this launch batch, and avoiding the thing about backing your ebay systems up with an extended service warranty. Why is that such a problem for you both to do?
Hell, most modders here that offer systems for sale do this in some form or another. What makes you feel your situation is so different that you don't have to guarantee the systems being auctioned off? Again, if you were really that confident in the current batches being sold, you'd stand by them with a 6 month service warranty.
Also, again, waiting for some audio comparison videos. Seeing and hearing is believing. Forgive me if I don't take kinda sorta awkward Anton LaVey's word for it.
And you can get upset and pissy all you want, but you have no attachment to this forum other then some spin guy doing your dirty work. So yeah, I get concerned when this kind of shit starts to play out on the forum I currently frequent the most. Others may not be as verbal about it, but I don't mind doing that, calling out bullshit.
I may be crass or harsh about it at times, but I don't owe you anything, and I don't care to brown nose this or sugar coat it. You have what seems to be a fairly impressive product in the making, but your ebay launch completely sucks ass. Yeah, I dont expect Nintendo collector/forum people to complain, because honestly, they are not that great or known for their sound decision making skills.
Thats all there is to it. Don't like hearing that? Then go f*ck yourself. Its a free world, and people have a right to express their opinion on the matter. You can always go back to slinking about behind the scenes and using Game-Tech for your voice if you cant handle it. Otherwise, man up, start offering them warranties, and get to posting that sound caparison already Kev, or is it Anton, I forget which...
EDIT, as for you thinking no one is wondering wtf is going on, or having issues with it, just because they dont post here doesnt mean they dont converse about it behind the scenes. I have 4 others from here that I have been talking to about this as is, and one of them worded their concerns quite well this evening to me:
Granted, I dont talk to everyone on this forum on a casual or friendly basis often, but I would be damn naive to think that others here are not having similar conversations...
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on August 31, 2015, 03:23:38 PM
Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."
Typical ProfessorProfessorson, professional keyboard warrior.
Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on August 31, 2015, 03:27:29 PM
I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..
I hear you! :)
NO NEED FOR ANY IF THIS FINNICKY CRAP I am old-school, so I feel the same way about RGB mods! (on economic and philosophical grounds).
CURIOSITY and/or CONVENIENCE Of course, I do understand the desire to simplify your life and use ONE MONITOR for all entertainment needs (in this case, HDTV). Folks are willing to compromise in the name of convenience.
PERSONALLY After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.
If I'm going to have everything on one box, I'll just emulate the damn thing. Seriously, $500-700 for a NES is a little extreme. If I'm going to pay that kind of money, it better come with a warranty. No excuses.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on August 31, 2015, 03:29:15 PM
Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."
Typical ProfessorProfessorson, professional keyboard warrior.
Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.
Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."
Typical ProfessorProfessorson, professional keyboard warrior.
Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.
Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch
Kevtris gave you evidence, and you chose to ignore it, because of this. Your own words. Stupid. Childish. Petty. As usual. Pathetic.
No, he gave me no evidence. His videos cover prior testing of the stuff as he was working out kinks. There is nothing in there showing they did extensive testing of the launch batch of pcbs or of the systems they just auctioned off or just listed.
His latest videos basically go from "HiDefNES Update #9: Into Production We Go!" to "HiDef NES Update 10 - SHIP IT!" with no testing videos of the launch stuff being shown as extensively tested or anything in between.
There is also no comparison videos from what I could see. Even Game-Tech is saying there does not seem to be any concerning the audio. Its why I uploaded a audio clip for them to use. I did actually browse his channel noob. Seriously, if you cant be bothered to actually go back and read the past couple of pages, then just stfu. You're the worst possible kind of white knight.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on August 31, 2015, 03:42:27 PM
So what you are saying, is you went with a personal attack on kevtris, just because? Makes you look like a real winner.
P.S. Good job ignoring me.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 03:43:19 PM
Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch
Kevtris gave you evidence, and you chose to ignore it, because of this. Your own words. Stupid. Childish. Petty. As usual. Pathetic.
Is prof for real?? Kevtris is a designer/developer, i must have missed the part of the job description where they are required to be camera friendly and enjoyable to watch? WTF is wrong with prof? Until prof posts a youtube video and proves hes not awkward and is enjoyable to watch, he should stfu...
Kevtris, this moron does not speak for other people on this forum. I wouldn't even waste my breath on him. Sadly, I don't even like this high def nes, but i respect the fact that you put in serious time and effort to bring this project to light. You guys posted it in the correct section on our site as well. If prof isn't planning on purchasing a system from you, he has ZERO f_cking say in anything that should revolve around it with his worthless ramblings carrying no weight.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 04:03:01 PM
Honestly I just think it's hilarious someone would swoop in to defend Dark. That just came out of nowhere. Dark has a pretty bad rep here.
Believe it or not, people follow this thread even when they don't post. I don't know anyone's history here, but if you think that your 'rep' has any merit after trolling two of the best guys in the community, then you're skull is even thicker than suggested.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on August 31, 2015, 04:09:44 PM
Oh how little yoi know noob, oh how little you know.
This is his standard form of attack. "You haven't been around long enough, so your opinion can't be true." It doesn't take 3 years of being here to see that he is the ultimate keyboard warrior. A cursory read of this thread shows him "white knighting" for PCEFX, protecting us from the evil kevtris.
Captain Hindsight here knows exactly how this hobby release should have gone... in hindsight. Congratu-f*cking-lations.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 04:23:08 PM
Honestly I just think it's hilarious someone would swoop in to defend Dark. That just came out of nowhere. Dark has a pretty bad rep here.
Believe it or not, people follow this thread even when they don't post. I don't know anyone's history here, but if you think that your 'rep' has any merit after trolling two of the best guys in the community, then you're skull is even thicker than suggested.
Which community? This mod does literally nothing for the PC Engine community.
The point is, for such a high buy-in price, one would expect a lot more confidence/backing/proof.
I have seen an AnalogueNT whateverNES in person.
After seeing it, I personally don't see any reason for it. I run composite into an XRGB3 with scanlines and get the same kind of image quality. NES in RGB doesn't look fantastic. It's NES. There's not alot going on.
Composite modded Famicom or NES can be obtained for under 100$. A simple composite upscaler is not too expensive either.
Or, you can get an XRGB of some variety and have a device that suits many needs, instead of one single overpriced NES need that isn't even really that great in the end.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 04:23:56 PM
SmokeMonster, been here less then a year, has less then 200 post, barely active, thinks he knows who two of the best members in the community are. LOL @ that. There is no "two best" members here idiot, there are quite a few awesome people here that bring a lot to the table, and DK isn't counted among them.
Game-techs repair and mod service seems great, but I mean, he isn't the only one here doing it. Keith, Turbokon, TheSteve, etc. Are you saying Game-Tech or DarkKobold is more valuable here then they are? f*ck THAT NOISE. Oh my god I cant stop laughing at that. Seriously, my ribs hurt. Dammit lol.
EDIT: f*ck lol even Nintega was more valuable then DarkKobold. at least he could be funny at times. Seriously Smoke, are you a DarkKobold alt account or something lol? There is no way you could type something like saying DarkKobold is one of the best members here and not have been cracking up a little inside as you did.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 04:42:57 PM
Oh hell, I just realized that Smokemonster was the knob running the TED roms ebay auctions. Oh, the irony of him posting in this. Oh god it just gets funnier and funnier.
SmokeMonster, been here less then a year, has less then 200 post, barely active, thinks he knows who two of the best members in the community are. LOL @ that. There is no "two best" members here idiot, there are quite a few awesome people here that bring a lot to the table, and DK isn't counted among them.
Game-techs repair and mod service seems great, but I mean, he isn't the only one here doing it. Keith, Turbokon, TheSteve, etc. Are you saying Game-Tech or DarkKobold is more valuable here then they are? f*ck THAT NOISE. Oh my god I cant stop laughing at that. Seriously, my ribs hurt. Dammit lol.
EDIT: f*ck lol even Nintega was more valuable then DarkKobold. at least he could be funny at times. Seriously Smoke, are you a DarkKobold alt account or something lol? There is no way you could type something like saying DarkKobold is one of the best members here and not have been cracking up a little inside as you did.
I said that you're a worthless troll cunt and that I know nothing about Dark. I could write that out for you in a few paragraphs of imbecilic ranting if it would make it more clear. No one gives a shit about you or your self-entitled whiny bitch point of view.
GT and Kevtris are respected members of the community however.
Oh hell, I just realized that Smokemonster was the knob running the TED roms ebay auctions. Oh, the irony of him posting in this. Oh god it just gets funnier and funnier.
Right, I'm the one who was falsely accused of selling group-buy TEDs here and proved that to be wrong. I was attacked exactly like you go after GT for starting some auctions at retail price and having them blow up, and how did I respond? I never sold another Everdrive with roms since, despite the fact that it would triple or quadruple my sales prices.
Nice history revision though.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 05:28:36 PM
I am totally serious. When you say "the community", I assume PC Engine.
When you discuss NES mods in this community, it contributes diddly dick to the PC Engine community.
I hope this was clear enough for you to understand. Maybe you should be less ambiguous, and maybe you should also try to be less of a bag of semen.
Now, if you meant the community as in "the omfg retrogaemers community of all the consoels 4 lyfe", I still don't see what this contributes, since as I've said, a composite modded NES toploader, or Famicom, is not that expensive.
A front loader already does it.
Jam it in an upscaler. add scanlines. Looks fine.
I just witnessed the mod in action, and also look at Playchoice 10 cabinets and go *shrug*. It's not that impressive. NES composite somehow upscales fine.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 05:33:26 PM
I am totally serious. When you say "the community", I assume PC Engine
So posting years of PCE/TG16 how-to videos, tech demonstrations, mod writeups, and having a completely positive attitude to the PC Engine community means nothing to you?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 05:37:51 PM
I am totally serious. When you say "the community", I assume PC Engine
So posting years of PCE/TG16 how-to videos, tech demonstrations, mod writeups, and having a completely positive attitude to the PC Engine community means nothing to you?
note how I said "this mod". At no point did I say anything about the other stuff.
I like how you just ragged on Profprof for reading skills, and totally blew it when you posted.
Are you done now?
All I see here are some new guys acting like total jackasses.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 05:43:38 PM
Oh hell, I just realized that Smokemonster was the knob running the TED roms ebay auctions. Oh, the irony of him posting in this. Oh god it just gets funnier and funnier.
Right, I'm the one who was falsely accused of selling group-buy TEDs here and proved that to be wrong. I was attacked exactly like you go after GT for starting some auctions at retail price and having them blow up, and how did I respond? I never sold another Everdrive with roms since, despite the fact that it would triple or quadruple my sales prices.
Nice history revision though.
Your ebay seller feedback is your history. Shit doesn't lie. Only an a$$hole would sell rom carts, multiple ones in fact, full of roms on ebay. No defense for that. I don't care if it was TED group buy shit or not. It was a blatant cash grab. You're a joke. Worse then Tobias even in that respect. Maybe you should go away for another month. We almost forgot this time about what you did. Maybe in two to three months....hell you never know, anything is possible. People may actually one day forget you're the a$$hole that sold those preloaded rom carts.
Also, just a tip, you may want to seek out your family doctor and see if he would be willing to refill that Valium prescription. Your panties are wound way way too tight girl. Your post seem to be seething with rage for this forum.
Is prof for real?? Kevtris is a designer/developer, i must have missed the part of the job description where they are required to be camera friendly and enjoyable to watch?
To keep someones attention and make them feel engaged on some level you have to present some kind of personality or energy on video. Just staring blankly into the camera and kind of rambling off and on in some emotionless manner doesn't cut it. The guy doesn't look comfortable in front of the camera, or appear psyched about his own product most of the time.
At least Game-tech does in his own videos, so if I was Kev, I'd just use Game-tech for the vid updates for now on. Totally their call, but between the two of them, GT is the better of the two on this youtube shit. Just how it is.
WTF is wrong with prof? Until prof posts a youtube video and proves hes not awkward and is enjoyable to watch, he should stfu...
I don't present my self as some kind of youtube tech personality, so I have no reason to sit there in front of a camera over and over again. I submit videos off and on about random things like the 3DO M2 kiosk units, or about pc parts and old computers. Instead of having people stare at me to no end though I get to the meat and potatoes and show the stuff doing what it does.
Kevtris, this moron does not speak for other people on this forum. I wouldn't even waste my breath on him.
I never presented myself as someone that does. But I did state I am not the only one with concerns or skepticism. Now you have others posting them, so there is that ehh...
You guys posted it in the correct section on our site as well. If prof isn't planning on purchasing a system from you, he has ZERO f_cking say in anything that should revolve around it with his worthless ramblings carrying no weight.
Your right, I don't have any intention to buy a system from him, and as is, the odds of me wanting to buy a kit from him are getting slimmer and slimmer. Either way, this thread was not initially a sales thread to dump systems on ebay either. Game-Tech made it the such just as of late for the epic super duper ultra ebay launch. After seeing that didn't go over so well he kind of shut up about the ebay auctions. If Game-tech wants to make this a sales thread, he will have to have it moved to the proper sales section, and we can all go from there. Until then as of late its simply a quasi spam update thread full of spin and some evading of hard questions.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 06:04:57 PM
Your ebay seller feedback is your history. Shit doesn't lie. Only an a$$hole would sell rom carts, multiple ones in fact, full of roms on ebay. No defense for that. I don't care if it was TED group buy shit or not. It was a blatant cash grab. You're a joke. Worse then Tobias even in that respect. Maybe you should go away for another month. We almost forgot this time about what you did. Maybe in two to three months....hell you never know, anything is possible. People may actually one day forget you're the a$$hole that sold those preloaded rom carts.
I honestly don't care what you think. You have no credibility beyond being one of the resident ranting white knight jackasses. I never made the mistake of including SD cards with any roms since those first listings, so your attack is mute. If I were after big money, I would have learned the opposite lesson from those auctions. Instead, this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=321825831269) is more typical of what I sell lately, or a gem like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-EverDrive-64-v2-5-UltraCIC-Switch-Custom-Shell-8GB-SD-Nintendo-64-N64-/321825808624?rd=1). And my feedback is 100%
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 06:13:16 PM
Can someone explain to me how a N64 flash cart in a shell with some labels is a "gem" ?
and can someone explain why you even need an N64 flashcart? The 5 games on it worth owning cost like 32 cents.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 06:18:05 PM
I meant gem sarcastically because it sold for almost nothing. Not a great library by any stretch of the imagination, but the Everdrive64 is the only way to play Goldeneye X at least.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 06:19:50 PM
I am Adora, He-Bro's kinda chunky twin sister and defender of the Rom Palace. This is CashGrab, my beloved steed. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I logged into ebay and said "The card is flashed with the latest Turbo Everdrive OS, and is completely setup with everything ever released for both the Turbografx-16 and PC Engine. Also included are tons of homebrew, translations, and more. It's fully setup so you can just plug it in and play. ". I am PERIOD BEAST!
Only a few others share this secret. Among them are DarkKobold and Romcartz. Together me and my friends of the Great Rebellion try to defend The Community and Kevtris from the evil forces of the haters.
IKR?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 06:22:13 PM
135$ is almost nothing?
wat.
I am going to play Famicom now.
on an 80$ AV modded system through an XRGB3.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 06:23:12 PM
Right, or "No games included" which is what every auction since has read. Troll on.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 06:31:02 PM
Doesn't make up for prior deeds. You'd have kept on selling said roms if you were not called out on it. You only stopped because you got shamed publicly and were worried people would report your auctions. Otherwise it would have been business as usual.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on August 31, 2015, 06:40:12 PM
Or... I took the high road.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on August 31, 2015, 06:43:25 PM
I am Adora, He-Bro's kinda chunky twin sister and defender of the Rom Palace. This is CashGrab, my beloved steed. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I logged into ebay and said "The card is flashed with the latest Turbo Everdrive OS, and is completely setup with everything ever released for both the Turbografx-16 and PC Engine.....".....but then I got caught and the fun stopped...... :(
:-({|=
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on August 31, 2015, 07:31:01 PM
EDIT: f*ck lol even Nintega was more valuable then DarkKobold. at least he could be funny at times. Seriously Smoke, are you a DarkKobold alt account or something lol? There is no way you could type something like saying DarkKobold is one of the best members here and not have been cracking up a little inside as you did.
He never said I was one of the best members here. Nothing even remotely close. Holy shit you are dense as a rock.
Also, no one cares if you think I'm valuable. Least of all me. I think you are a keyboard warrior shut-in.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on August 31, 2015, 07:57:26 PM
These are some crappy cellphone camera grabs of my Famicom + AV mod going into an XRGB3 to my 60" TV.
Now, take the XRGB3 out of the picture and use a cheap 35-40$ composite upscaler, and you're getting this kind of image, for less than half the price of the thing. If you already had an XRGB or something for other purposes, you can just exclude it altogether and enjoy NES on bigTV9000 for <100$
I saw the quality of this thing in action in an AnalogueThingy. It outputs and looks nice. However, for the price, I think it's a waste. It's NES.
Even the crispest, greatest NES image of all time is not that great. It's NES. There's not enough colors per tile to really benefit from this stuff.
Composite upscaled eliminates artifacts/smudgies, and is crisp + scanliney. I could probably make the above images look better if I cared enough. I didn't bother tweaking settings in the XRG3.
So you're only really going to benefit from this mod if you're some kind of NES fanboy, you have a boner for overpriced hardware (the AnalogueThing), or you never intend to do anything upscaley with any other machine.
oh, and there is no input lag in this case. I'm sure someone will bring that up. I sit and blow through Legend of Kage ad naseum.
You can't do that with input lag. That's not a thing that people do.
So, what I am ultimately getting at here is, the mod is nice enough for what it is, but the price is batshit insane.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 01:58:37 AM
EDIT: f*ck lol even Nintega was more valuable then DarkKobold. at least he could be funny at times. Seriously Smoke, are you a DarkKobold alt account or something lol? There is no way you could type something like saying DarkKobold is one of the best members here and not have been cracking up a little inside as you did.
He never said I was one of the best members here. Nothing even remotely close. Holy shit you are dense as a rock.
Also, no one cares if you think I'm valuable. Least of all me. I think you are a keyboard warrior shut-in.
Actually it was rather hard to tell who he was talking about. He came in to aid you then swapped over to the other two when he said that. That guy was a mess. Just one scum bucket defending another in your case, and it gave me a chuckle. Stop having hurt feelings over it. You already know what people think of you here. By now you should be used to it. At least you have a fall back plan, that DoxPhile gig and all.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Opethian on September 01, 2015, 01:58:49 AM
for the record I did report his auctions
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 02:08:29 AM
Yeah he only stopped listing that crap because he didnt want to lose his ebay account. That is all there is to it.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 02:31:22 AM
Actually it was rather hard to tell who he was talking about. He came in to aid you then swapped over to the other two when he said that. That guy was a mess. Just one scum bucket defending another in your case, and it gave me a chuckle. Stop having hurt feelings over it. You already know what people think of you here. By now you should be used to it. At least you have a fall back plan, that DoxPhile gig and all.
He didn't aid me, he called you a cunt troll. That is it.
The rest of your attack has been based on some crazy-ass nutjob narrative you created in your head, where we are the new A-Team, standing up against PCEFX.
"Fall back plan?" From what? I didn't know I had a "master plan," which requires a "fallback plan."
And overall: (http://i.imgur.com/fpER398.gif)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on September 01, 2015, 03:19:51 AM
DK, smoke, and prof: take your personal attacks elsewhere. If you don't have anything to say about the topic (preferably something new instead of a continual rehash of this thing being useless, overpriced, etc.), then this thread isn't for you.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 03:25:58 AM
Oh he came to your defense. At any rate kiddo, you sure do get all emotional rather easy. As for master plan, your giving yourself too much credit. Just stated the obvious. Your got a forum to fall back on where you are accepted. Im sure it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside :wink:.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 03:28:14 AM
DK, smoke, and prof: take your personal attacks elsewhere. If you don't have anything to say about the topic (preferably something new instead of a continual rehash of this thing being useless, overpriced, etc.), then this thread isn't for you.
Fair request is fair. Edit: Gah, hate typing on samsung. Anyway Ark posted some good pics. If I get the time I will do the same with my iscan on my lcd. Had not run my fami on my lcd yet.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on September 01, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
Thank you Necro
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 01, 2015, 06:53:15 AM
This image demonstrates the biggest problem with composite- the dot crawl. If you look at the letters at the bottom of the screen, you can see how much the white bleeds over into the black. Its not as noticable on the NES, as say, Genesis via composite. That said, it is still noticeable, and has the potential to be far crisper.
I hate dot crawl.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 01, 2015, 07:11:37 AM
That is also a photograph taken with my phone held directly in front of the TV, slightly out of focus.
It's a pretty "meh" problem for NES. As you even noted, it's not as noticeable as Genesis, or PCE, or any other machine for that matter.
For some reason, NES composite seems to be good enough. I wasn't convinced of the quality vs. cost increase for RGB NES, and certainly not for HDMI NES.
If you're sitting on my couch (The Goonies screenshot), you can see that you don't really see much of an issue.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Gredler on September 01, 2015, 07:14:01 AM
DK, smoke, and prof: take your personal attacks elsewhere. If you don't have anything to say about the topic (preferably something new instead of a continual rehash of this thing being useless, overpriced, etc.), then this thread isn't for you.
Thanks necro.
This makes me curious what a kind of picture quality I could get. I use a CRT for these systems, but have HD tvs at my house and it'd be nice to occasionally play a oldie on the new set. I would like to sink into my good couch and play on my good tv for this weeks GoTW. Thanks for posting this thread, and thanks mod for re-railing it ;)
For some reason, NES composite seems to be good enough. I wasn't convinced of the quality vs. cost increase for RGB NES, and certainly not for HDMI NES.
This is how I've felt, especially on my CRT. Stock video outputs at their highest quality has been fine for me. I really do often feel that the artifacts that accompany these interfaces are part of the charm of the picture. Actually, getting my art to show up on a crt through composite piped through the duo was a great moment for me. I really appreciate being able to see that, but the second I put it on my HDTV shit goes blurry, and pretty shitty - certainly not the same and hardly similar to the picture I get on my CRT.
I really would like to invest in an upscaler, but Turbokun's offer is likely what will be my go to.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on September 01, 2015, 07:34:16 AM
Initial stages of fitment of kit to front loader NES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0cwm2thGQs
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 01, 2015, 07:42:55 AM
I really would like to invest in an upscaler, but Turbokun's offer is likely what will be my go to.
they make cheaper upscalers that only do Composite, and you can use a composite amp to help increase the signal. Those things run like 40 or so bucks.
If you never plan on doing any RGB stuff, they're a good alternative.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 01, 2015, 09:51:36 AM
Extron DVS-204 or the Hall TVB-200 are cheap and look identical to Arkhan's captures. The problems are identical too though. Both have VGA out for scanlines, which gives the impression of better sharpness at least. I only use the NES with a CRT because scaled composite doesn't look good at all to my eyes.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Desh on September 01, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
Welcome to NeoEngineFX.com. The flames here are so ridiculous. If you don't like the work Kevtris and Game.Tech are peddling don't buy it. Hasn't mommy ever told anyone here if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all?
In any event, I personally love my RGB NES on my Wega. In fact, almost all of my systems are minimally running s-video which is a vast improvement over composite. I think this HDMI kit is pretty cool and admittedly I am bummed I can't purchase one right away. I am dying to see one side by side with an RGB NES through a Frameister and this HDMI kit.
My biggest issue is there seems to be a bit of input lag on some TV ' S with the frameister so I want to see if there is with this kit. Also, there are plenty of folks out there that only mainly play NES and don't care as much about other platforms. This kit (even at $150) is a steal compared to frameister ($400) plus RGB kit ($85). I personally am not a fan of composite even when upscaled. It's all in personal preference.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on September 01, 2015, 11:36:25 AM
For some reason, NES composite seems to be good enough. I wasn't convinced of the quality vs. cost increase for RGB NES, and certainly not for HDMI NES.
I'm currently having my AV fami upgraded with the RGB kit. I'll be using svideo out. I'm fairly excited to see how it turns out. It may turn out that I just wasted money for a very minor upgrade, or I may be blown away at how Mega Man looks.
At the end of the day, it is all what you can afford, and what you value. Back when people did the PC10 mod, it made no sense to me, because the palette was wrong. That said, I wouldn't have disparaged them for doing what they wanted with their money.
If people are financially secure, can afford the HDMI nes mod without starving or going into debt, then more power to them.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 01, 2015, 11:59:48 AM
For some reason, NES composite seems to be good enough. I wasn't convinced of the quality vs. cost increase for RGB NES, and certainly not for HDMI NES.
I'm currently having my AV fami upgraded with the RGB kit. I'll be using svideo out. I'm fairly excited to see how it turns out. It may turn out that I just wasted money for a very minor upgrade, or I may be blown away at how Mega Man looks.
At the end of the day, it is all what you can afford, and what you value. Back when people did the PC10 mod, it made no sense to me, because the palette was wrong. That said, I wouldn't have disparaged them for doing what they wanted with their money.
If people are financially secure, can afford the HDMI nes mod without starving or going into debt, then more power to them.
If you are using NESRGB, then it looks as perfect as emulation, without any of the imperfections. Just make sure it's being set to the authentic palette or that a palette swpping switch is being installed.
I felt the same way about RGB-based mods before this and was on the fence for a bit about the palette part, but after researching I found that it was not only authentic enough for me, but even more so for everything that is restored by methods like this. After playing it in person, it exceeded my expectations.
I can't be bothered to read up on all of the features of the hi-def NES kit, since the main difference is adding things I don't want, but it would be cool if you could disable things like the digital audio and if you can line out s-video or component when playing on a crt.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 01, 2015, 12:59:58 PM
Granted, I have kind of a crap camera, so it is hard for me to get any really quality shots. It doesn't handle the contrast and black levels off of my LCD very well, but here goes:
As is I have been fairly happy with the Toshiba on it's own. It has decent hardware built in to handle composite and svideo sources via its "Game Mode". I really got the iScan stuff to use on crt vga monitors, though they will output both VGA and component video, and can be used with a mini SLG, though I have not bothered to buy or make one yet.
I mean, if I had to game with just using my Toshiba, I would be fine between its decent internal hardware and the iScan paired with it. The Toshiba doesn't have issues with 240P signals, nor does it have any sucky deinterlacing issues or problems with shadow effects in games thankfully. The Toshiba set me back around $500 or so way back when I picked it up. It was one of the more expensive 26inch lcds at the time, and one of the few available with a legit game mode. Well worth the money I spent by far.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 01, 2015, 01:31:57 PM
I could afford all of this high end crap.
The thing is, I'm not into wasting money on things for marginal improvements at best, or buying devices specifically for the penis waving audiophile-esque thing like the AnalogueNT. I'll admit it's a nice looking device, but, I don't have a need for it. Especially for the price. I'm all set at Fort Famicom already.
I've still got my toploader from when I was like 5 and we had to replace the front loader because my dumbass sister kept pulling it off the shelf since she's convinced leaning into jumps actually makes Mario jump farther. It's just got AV out now. Got a Famicom with the same treatment. Totally set.
If I wanted, I could go pop a composite amp on the line and probably enhance the picture. Or I could give more of a shit and go mess with the XRGB3's settings. They're basically on stock settings.
I don't think I'll ever be impressed by any RGBNES setup. I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong. I've seen't it on PlayChoice 10, XRGB outs, PVM... it's whatever.
Just like how the MSX RGB out is like "eh whatever" for the MSX1 titles.
It's important for the MSX2 titles, really. That's where the pixel smudgery and text bleeding becomes a problem. You can't really play Hydlide 3 on an MSX with composite out through an upscaler. The text is all idiotic looking.
Now, like I said, the HDMI mod we have here is not a bad thing. It's pretty useful for people who mostly just play NES, and have no intention of ever getting an upscaler.
The price is what's blowing my mind. Didn't one of the auctions cap out at like 750$? Why? I get that it's a bid and this essentially means someone out there is a f*cking retard with their money...
but why not just do BINs with a fair price and establish a sane market for the mod?
This sort of thing is only going to help contribute to the rapidly increasing prices of things for no good reason. We're letting spazzes with poor financial self control do all of the price establishing. These people are not the people you want to establish prices.
I personally just see no justification for spending that much when you could spend less and get an RGB'd NES.
Shit, for the 750$ or whatever, I could literally spend an extra 100, and go get a Playchoice 10 cabinet at the arcade shop down the street....
We're letting spazzes with poor financial self control do all of the price establishing.
This is where I think we disagree. "Let" suggests that you or I have some form of control over how these people spend their own hard-earned money. We don't, and shouldn't.
Auctions, to me, seemed like a fair way to sell the units. Its not kevtris's fault what people decided they wanted to spend.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 01, 2015, 04:23:45 PM
Auctions, to me, seemed like a fair way to sell the units. Its not kevtris's fault what people decided they wanted to spend.
Which is why I *literally* said "but why not just do BINs with a fair price and establish a sane market for the mod?"
mitigating collectard-itis is pretty much everyone who's doing these sort of thing's obligation.
Why do you think the games I make don't come sealed?
You raise a good point, just having a selling price would have been better for the community. Don't get me started on the LE homebrew auctions that NA goes ga-ga for.
Good advice for my potential future release. I'll keep this in mind.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 01, 2015, 06:40:44 PM
If the kits are sold for what's been mentioned, I think it's a great deal for what it does, even though I personally think that some of the features do more harm than good and would like the option of turning them off if this was the only product of its kind.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: xelement5x on September 02, 2015, 05:52:06 AM
Auctions, to me, seemed like a fair way to sell the units. Its not kevtris's fault what people decided they wanted to spend.
Which is why I *literally* said "but why not just do BINs with a fair price and establish a sane market for the mod?"
I agree that there should be some personal responsibility involved in helping establish a set price point, but it's possible that maybe since these are early units and he didn't have enough right now to sell them he just wanted to run them as auctions to drum up some press on the product?
It's all conjecture on my part, but we are all talking about them so if it was about getting some free press than it is definitely working.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 07:24:53 AM
The problem is, like any other retro-game-related-thing, once the idiots with credit cards / poor financial decision making come out of the woodwork, there's no turning back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqctDwp3OG4
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esadajr on September 02, 2015, 08:19:50 AM
I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 02, 2015, 08:54:56 AM
Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?
Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 09:18:21 AM
Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?
Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.
Newflash dude, we all blow our free time on these things, free of charge. I worked on Atlantean during most of my free time. 0$ generated. This stuff isn't supposed to be for large scale profits. Could you imagine how idiotic it would've been if the first wave of those were going for upwards of 200$ so we could hastily claim that we broke even?
As I've already stated, now we have established prices on these things.
So, these kits, once available, will then likely be bought, slapped into machines, and peddled around for 600+$ by a$$holes, because that's exactly what people do. They do cash grabs that take advantage of idiots, and people with poor financial decision making abilities.
This cuts into the available stock of NES for normal people, and further drives up prices and makes it difficult for people to enjoy.
It's called forward thinking.
and what about when Kevtris/GT see that their kits are being used to turn a bigger profit? It encourages them to do the same. So, while this device is a solid idea, the business maneuvers are dooming it. Nobody is underestimating the effort that went into any of this. You seem to have difficulty grasping that.
MSRP is a thing. You shouldn't let spazzes with triggerhappy eBay behaviors establish the prices. But, that is what happened.
Congrats for generating a ton of money and breaking even, or more.
Boo for inadvertently contributing to the financial idiocy of retro games.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on September 02, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?
Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.
Did you even bother to read anyone else's post before jumping in to say 'f*ck teh haters!', and why are you so adamant that there's no middle ground?
The price could have been set at a point where he'd make the 'little' money nobody disagrees he deserves, but instead he chose to set up a cash grab, contributing to the collectard fueled price escalation of all things retro. Unlike yourself, some of us here actually give a shit about the community and would rather not see it overrun by people looking to make a buck, build on their 'investment', and fishing for virtual hand jobs over their latest unboxing video (see any facebook game group). That said, I see nothing much wrong with the proposed kit prices; I look at it like RGB mods on a Turbob - I don't see it being worth the cost, but it's a fine option for those that think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the investment.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 02, 2015, 10:22:07 AM
I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.
Newflash dude, we all blow our free time on these things, free of charge. I worked on Atlantean during most of my free time. 0$ generated. This stuff isn't supposed to be for large scale profits. Could you imagine how idiotic it would've been if the first wave of those were going for upwards of 200$ so we could hastily claim that we broke even?
You can produce as many games per batch as you need. GT has a limited supply of toploaders collecting dust to get rid of, after which he's going into the business of making affordable kits using the collateral from his sales. Why shouldn't he think on a large scale like Stoneagegamer and other retailers?
As I've already stated, now we have established prices on these things.
No, people have established an imaginary number in their head of what they want to pay for the first few devices ever sold. You are hardly the person to comment on price, having paid $300 just for composite scaled NES and suggesting that it's just as good as RGB.
So, these kits, once available, will then likely be bought, slapped into machines, and peddled around for 600+$ by a$$holes, because that's exactly what people do. They do cash grabs that take advantage of idiots, and people with poor financial decision making abilities.
The $600 price will obviously not last. You can't sell a console for its introductory price after six months. These are the early adopters of a hot new piece of hardware, and of course it's more expensive than if they had waited or installed their own kit.
This cuts into the available stock of NES for normal people, and further drives up prices and makes it difficult for people to enjoy.
This is the most ridiculous argument yet and there is no evidence to suggest that HDMI NES kits are going to raise the price of an NES. Please share a single example of this actually happening. The NES was one of the best selling consoles of all time...
and what about when Kevtris/GT see that their kits are being used to turn a bigger profit? It encourages them to do the same. So, while this device is a solid idea, the business maneuvers are dooming it. Nobody is underestimating the effort that went into any of this. You seem to have difficulty grasping that.
MSRP is a thing. You shouldn't let spazzes with triggerhappy eBay behaviors establish the prices. But, that is what happened.
Congrats for generating a ton of money and breaking even, or more.
Boo for inadvertently contributing to the financial idiocy of retro games.
Yes, it's better to jump to a hundred conclusions in a series of illogical steps... Nothing that you said has any evidence to support it, beyond being worst case scenarios dreamed up by someone who admittedly sees no use for HDMI NES anyways.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on September 02, 2015, 10:44:04 AM
I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.
Hardly. You're implying that ANY amount of profit is acceptable and that anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant hater, leaving no middle ground where someone can argue that x amount of profit is okay but y is too much.
But I digress. You're just another profiteer that makes up bullshit and justifications as you go along, and I've little doubt you're just trying to figure out how you can buy these kits and flip 'em for big monies.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: kevtris on September 02, 2015, 10:45:19 AM
I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high. The availability of kits will mean everyone can get their system modded (or install it themselves if they got the skills) for a lot less. People are paying for convenience right now and those that "gotta have it" I guess.
The lack of build instructions and key parts for the kits is the main reason that the first units are being sold pre-modified. This was an attempt to get units out on the market as quickly as possible while all the back end documentation is being prepared and the parts are being sourced that go with the bare boards to make it into a proper kit.
The other thing we could've done was just kept units back and did nothing for a month or two while the documentation and parts sourcing occurred.
As for "selling untested units" to people, this isn't true. The new run of boards is the same design as the last set of protos, so there's nothing new there.
All the cash made on the auctions is going directly back in to fund the next round of boards, so we're not even making any money on them. Kind of like a kickstarter, except we have a product we can deliver right away, instead of maybe having something ready in 2 years.
Btw the kit price is $120 and not $150.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 10:51:51 AM
I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high
You must not have been to any game conventions lately. Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.
I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.
120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$. I can see that happening. People are idiots.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 02, 2015, 10:58:43 AM
I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high
You must not have been to any game conventions lately. Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.
I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.
120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$. I can see that happening. People are idiots.
$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...
Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.
I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.
Hardly. You're implying that ANY amount of profit is acceptable and that anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant hater, leaving no middle ground where someone can argue that x amount of profit is okay but y is too much.
But I digress. You're just another profiteer that makes up bullshit and justifications as you go along, and I've little doubt you're just trying to figure out how you can buy these kits and flip 'em for big monies.
No, I said that it's fair to let the market decide the price for the first consoles. Especially when the buyers absolutely know that a kit is coming. But I digress, you're just another person who admitted no interest in the device anyways.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on September 02, 2015, 11:26:54 AM
RGB modded NES's are already selling for $250-350. The kits are not that cheap, install can take a couple hours and you need the right tools to do it so the install isn't that cheap and then most people want 3d printed parts. The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to. I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks. Even going off of pictures on a computer can't really do it justice compared to seeing a set in real life. I am looking forward to seeing the image from the NT a local friend bought. From what I've seen the image looks absolutely perfect and the extra features to adjust the image and palettes look like a lot of fun to tinker with. TVs barely have composite jacks even anymore. I don't really like HDMI much personally, I don't think it's a very reliable connection and the restrictions it has are irritating but it's the standard now and a lot of poeple want to move with the times and keep playing their old games on new sets without them looking like crap. The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on September 02, 2015, 11:39:32 AM
I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..
For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on September 02, 2015, 11:57:32 AM
For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.
It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 12:06:01 PM
The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to.
Except, they did... See what I said about setting up a BIN instead....
I'm not quite sure what it is with people in this thread sucking at reading.
Quote
I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks.
I've seen similar, and I am not really impressed. Partially because of reasons already stated, in that NES never really looks that stellar. The best RGB mod + the best RGB monitor around doesn't improve the actual graphical capabilities of the machine... you just get really crisp plainness.
You're more than welcome to come stand in front of a Playchoice 10 and try to convince me that it's so much better than what I am staring at when I play on my couch. I tried to convince myself of it to justify dumping money into RGB, but I wasn't able to.
Fire up an emulator on a CRT. That's what you're after, essentially. It's not too great. I used to stare at that all the time when I was too young to afford imports and wanted to play Samurai Pizza Cats.
I don't really subscribe to the "pro crt RGB wank" attitude because it's all fairly overrated and not nearly as great as any of you guys seem to imply, especially for something like NES.
I ditched all that crap for an upscaler and a 60" TV. Haven't noticed a loss of gaming enjoyment, but have noticed more space for cooler stuff since I dumped like 10 RGB monitors on other people.
This is where you bring up "input lag" that's unrecognizable by the human brain, and act like I have no taste or poor eye sight because I don't whip my dick out for this stuff.
I did tests on XRGB3 vs. composite into a 1084S, and saw no measurable difference in gameplay. In fact, I did better on some games with XRGB3 because I could see what the f*ck I was doing.
That shit is the gaming dork equivalent of those people that buy all that high end audiophile equipment and try to convince everyone that their auditory experience is vastly superior when really, it isn't. It's some marginal improvement that you only notice if you're looking for it, being snooty, or have a side by side comparison to something lesser.
You will have the same memories and feelings as the person with the "inferior" setup.
It's not like anyone's brain retains the quality difference. Kind of like how audiophiles don't somehow hum a song in higher quality because they heard it better. I used to play SNES on a B&W TV. The first time I beat LttP was in B&W. Somehow though, my brain has implanted the colors into that time, since I've also beaten it in color.
It's mostly psychology and dick waving. I've got some of the high end vinyl playback stuff. It's whatever. The records aren't immediately asstastic when you play them on your grandma's dusty ass recordplayer and gooned up speakers.
Sure, the nicer equipment leads to a "nicer" experience, but, it doesn't mean the non-expensive/fancy setup is worthless and shouldn't even exist.
Quote
The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.
Yeah, dude, you're right. Crazy doesn't seem crazy when everything is already batshit insane.
$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...
I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now. When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader. That's scary.
Quote
Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.
How can we forget them? They're the ones who shot the auctions up to 700+$. They are the ones that establish these moronic prices that normal people are impacted by. Why do you not understand this?
We're not here to defend them, and unfortunately, "the majority" is not normal people. It's idiots. We're outnumbered by idiots. I am way too observant of this at game conventions. For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.
ANYWAY:
This thing (the HDMI thing) will be a pretty solid thing once it's out in some obtainable capacity though. Plus it will stop people from cannibalizing machines just for RGB mods so they can pat themselves on the back and try to convince themselves that it was worth it.
This device, in my opinion, is actually better than f*cking around with that for a few reasons.
1) It's cheaper (sort of, we hope, please) 2) It's easier (just jam it in any TV since like 10 years ago) 3) The video quality gives you that same crisp appearance and quality, if you really need it that bad.
I've seen RGB'd NES setups in action. I've seen this thing in action. I'd say the end result is pretty good, as long as the prices don't approach infinity retard.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: BigusSchmuck on September 02, 2015, 12:06:45 PM
For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.
It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk
I didn't realize it had a hdmi port on that sucker. You learn something new everyday..
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 02, 2015, 12:38:27 PM
For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.
Says the guy who's constantly making ranting personal attacks and defending the incredible quality of composite NES on his $300 scaler.
Everyone buying in at the current price is funding the operation. A $1000 kickstarter prize to the top 20 people would have been the same deal, except that a thousand other contributors would be at risk for the $120 kits that may or may not have materialized out of it.
$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...
I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now. When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader. That's scary.
Wow, you're like an oracle. What else do you forsee? Hi-Def installs in front or top loaders. Are you suggesting that front-loaders will all disappear too?
Title: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esteban on September 02, 2015, 12:48:01 PM
...
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 01:05:31 PM
Says the guy who's constantly making ranting personal attacks and defending the incredible quality of composite NES on his $300 scaler.
lol, I can tell you're excessively new here, if you think any of this is a ranting personal attack.
and, as I've stated, you can get the same kind of output from a cheaper composite only upscaler. The composite portion of the XRGB3 is practically an afterthought.
Again, demonstrating that you have the reading abilities of an inbred.
Nowhere did I use the word "incredible" either.
Quote
Wow, you're like an oracle. What else do you forsee? Hi-Def installs in front or top loaders. Are you suggesting that front-loaders will all disappear too?
You've missed the point. Not shocking, since you can't read.
You're pretty much contributing nothing to any point of any conversation going on in this thread. You can't read, you miss points, you can't make points, and you're generally just an idiot.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: PunkicCyborg on September 02, 2015, 01:13:29 PM
Here's another big deal that I dont think anyone mentioned. Streaming. I've been doing some streaming with some friends on twitch and the RGB modded NES and even the Svid modded NES looks miles better than streams with people using composite modded NES's. One of the biggest issues though is you have to run it through an XRGB then to an elgato or capture device that introduces a lot of lag with game play and the video feeds. HDMI NES is going to be awesome for that because you can get that same quality look and not have to deal with the XRGB in the mix. And sorry you don't like RGB monitors and CRTs Ark but to each his own, I love mine and think they look amazing. I get the same response from people who have never seen it or at the conventions I take them to. Last con me and my friends had a NES and a Sharp twin RGB modded and running on 14" PVMs and had muliple people asking why it looked so good that had no idea what the RGB monitors even are. They look perfect and I love playing on CRTs. I just don't like playing old games on HD sets, it just does not look right to me.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 01:23:10 PM
I never said I don't *like* the monitors. I just don't feel the need to stack them up and photograph them and proclaim that it's the only way to play something as mundane as NES. They look nice. Not nice enough to justify the space they consume.
I used to think CRT+RGBs were the only good idea until I bought an XRGB3, played around with it and went "welp, time to dump all these monitors in favor of more shit I'll use". All the monitors I sold got me more MSX stuff, new tubes for my guitar amp, another guitar, and a drum machine. Those al see more use than a stack of monitors that were all on standby, lol.
They're slowly falling out of favor, as we can see with this mod. It's becoming impractical, and even a bit annoying to keep this stuff around. Having a CRT crap out mid convention sucks when you're trying to demo stuff.
The odds of a flatpanel screen and an XRGB3 dying are pretty slim. It's all a lot more portable, too.
also, lol, streaming. the last thing I personally consider with gaming is how well I can share the experience with dickheads on the internet. I'd rather play games than watch them be played online.
I am going to try going from HDMI to component into my XRGB3 to see what that looks like. I'm pretty curious.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SmokeMonster on September 02, 2015, 01:30:48 PM
You're pretty much contributing nothing to any point of any conversation going on in this thread. You can't read, you miss points, you can't make points, and you're generally just an idiot.
A typical troll shouting, "lol but you didn't read my posts!!" every time someone disagrees with their lunatic-asshat opinion. I've read all of your posts and dissecting even one of them point-by-point was irritating enough.
May god help those who continue on in the pile of shit that is this thread.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2015, 01:48:10 PM
You can produce as many games per batch as you need. GT has a limited supply of toploaders collecting dust to get rid of, after which he's going into the business of making affordable kits using the collateral from his sales. Why shouldn't he think on a large scale like Stoneagegamer and other retailers?
You are having trouble connecting dots. I'm not talking about the kits. I'm talking about the kits in the hands of idiots, using the initial flood of prices as the price establishment point. What's going to prevent profiteering dickholes from grabbing entire batches of these kits, and making a mess of this?
Quote
No, people have established an imaginary number in their head of what they want to pay for the first few devices ever sold. You are hardly the person to comment on price, having paid $300 just for composite scaled NES and suggesting that it's just as good as RGB.
1) I bought my upscaler for more than just composite NES. There's a Saturn, SNES, Genesis, Master System, PCE, Dreamcast, PS1, N64, Gamecube, PSP, and NES running through it. Nice job there, tard. Nowhere did I say it's just as good as RGB either. I said composite is good enough.
I suggest Hooked on Phonics, maybe.
2) It's not an imaginary number. It exists. It sold. The history will remain on ebay, and that is where the collectards/gougers get their pricing from.
You still seem to have this inability to understand that.
Quote
The $600 price will obviously not last. You can't sell a console for its introductory price after six months. These are the early adopters of a hot new piece of hardware, and of course it's more expensive than if they had waited or installed their own kit.
You underestimate stupid people, and clearly don't pay attention to things very well. Once the kits are in the hands of idiots, where do you think they're going to go for price points? The Ebay history.
Quote
This is the most ridiculous argument yet and there is no evidence to suggest that HDMI NES kits are going to raise the price of an NES. Please share a single example of this actually happening. The NES was one of the best selling consoles of all time...
The C64 was one of the best selling computers of all time, and prices for those have been on the rise lately, too. Why? Idiots.
People buy them up to circuit bend/mod them, sack em for the SID chips. Reduce the available amount of them. Supply/Demand? Duh?
The same thing can happen to the NES. Lots of them are already dead/tossed out. A toploader is evidently 150$ now. As less of them become available, what do you think will happen to the price.
Also, again with the inability to read. It's going to contribute to the problem. It's not going to be the only variable. You should stop and think before you post contrarian nonsense.
Quote
It's also called inventing a story with lots of baseless assumptions. Think into the future when you can buy a kit and install it yourself.
They're not baseless if you've actually paid alot of attention to the retro gaming scene as it's gone on a nose dive over the past decade.
Quote
Yes, it's better to jump to a hundred conclusions in a series of illogical steps... Nothing that you said has any evidence to support it, beyond being worst case scenarios dreamed up by someone who admittedly sees no use for HDMI NES anyways.
Illogical, how? You're dismissing the years of prices going down the shitter, cash grab gimmicks, hoarders, gougers, etc. The evidence has been all over for awhile.
It's also comical that parts of your posts are basically just ad hominem, but you try calling me out for "ranting personal attacks".
Go f*ck yourself. You're worthless.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Opethian on September 02, 2015, 02:55:29 PM
(http://puu.sh/ip6YP/ad2437d208.gif)
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 02, 2015, 03:19:16 PM
Giant Wall of Text Powers Activate!!! Those that cant handle giant walls of text feel free to skip down to the next totally engaging, highly informal RomMaster Zero or DK post.
Ok, I'm going to start off with this:
First, I love the idea of the kit, and I 100 percent believe GT and Kev should make a reasonable profit on the work they put in, given they handle things properly. If they finally do sell them individually at the price they state they will, then it will be a nice option for people with Nes hardware. Having affordable options is always a good thing, never a bad one. Some people simply dont have LCDS capable of displaying composite signal all that well, and said people probably do not have iScan, XRGB, Extron, Kramer, or Faroudja upscalers. Many have no idea what those units even are. This especially applies to Nintendo Snes and Nes collectors. Said people may not have access to a reliable CRT anymore either. There are many problems that can exist for someone, so it is nice to have multiple affordable solutions readily available.
Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?
Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.
Did you even bother to read anyone else's post before jumping in to say 'f*ck teh haters!', and why are you so adamant that there's no middle ground?
The price could have been set at a point where he'd make the 'little' money nobody disagrees he deserves, but instead he chose to set up a cash grab, contributing to the collectard fueled price escalation of all things retro. Unlike yourself, some of us here actually give a shit about the community and would rather not see it overrun by people looking to make a buck, build on their 'investment', and fishing for virtual hand jobs over their latest unboxing video (see any facebook game group). That said, I see nothing much wrong with the proposed kit prices; I look at it like RGB mods on a Turbob - I don't see it being worth the cost, but it's a fine option for those that think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the investment.
Seems like before DK, James, PotatoCyborg, and RomMaster Zero jumped in on this trying to shut us up, all I and Arkhan, etc were basically saying was exactly that, along with me trying to pin Kev and Game-Tech down on some kind of warranty thing to take responsibility for the rushed untested nature of the auctioned launch, and to offer a complete sound comparison since a selling feature of this kit is supposedly the sound.
It seemed kind of implied that certain folks couldn't handle the heat as it were, and ran to Necro privately complaining. I don't know if that was actually the case, that people ran complaining, but it read off like it. And given Necro's initial request for all that to halt, including repeat conversation regarding the high price debate stuff, it just seems odd seeing him regurgitate what me and Ark and others have already said prior here and elsewhere to Smoke, etc.
As for Kevtris, you said I was the only one with said concerns. You specifically expressed that of all the forums Game-Tech and yourself have been spamming or visiting, that only I have been expressing these concerns, implying I was lying or making shit up. Having to prove that wrong and lay into into you over that sucks, but it had to happen. Sometimes people have to be beaten over the head with the clue stick to get the point across.
I am the type too that if I detect a hint of egotistical BS being spouted off, I have no qualms about tearing that shit down like its November 89 and the Berlin Wall has to go. Kev, if you took that personally, I'm just like, meh, whatever. You took that risk coming in and accusing me of being the only one with concerns and skepticism. I showed you otherwise. I can shoot the shit with you on tech talk all day long, or I can sling shit at you all day long too. Its your call on how you want something like that to play out.
The derailing flame war stuff was just adding spice and a mild distraction to the situation. Honestly to me it even lightened the mood some and created a few laughs, at Smoke and DK's expense, per usual, but seriously, who cares about these guys honestly? Since when does anyone here care that DK or Smokes feelings got hurt? Whoever did, you must be a better person then me, with some massive 100 percent forgiving, totally compromising, un-expecting heart.
Though honestly I cant recall myself actually getting downright vulgar and doing any major name calling at them or doing post overly laced with profanity in this latest flame war tidbit anyway. I think honestly prior to my mock She-Ra jabs at Smoke this thread was becoming a bit too serious in fact, like it is again right now.
Life is too short for this kind of shit, and way too many people here are too overly sensitive. Its rather embarrassing considering how many here are supposedly mature guys in their 30ies who cant handle minor barbs and jabs inserted into retorts unless its in some magical designated Fighting Street area, or how many seem incapable of finding the irony in a situation, or being able to laugh this mess off, or even laugh at themselves.
Seriously, if I can handle James personally attacking my family multiple times and state, or rather insist myself he shouldn't be banned for the personal insult crap, then some of you can learn to grow some thick skin and a sense of humor.
One, the name of this kit has always kind of annoyed me to a degree. Its a catchy name, but woefully inaccurate. Hi-Def Nes is not really going to make the Nes Hi-Definition, nor is it even going to appear to be Extended Definition on screen. Most of us know this, but there are morons out there that don't. For those that don't, let me put it this way. The internal resolution of the Nes is always going to be what, 256x240? This kit is not going to be able to add extra detail to that.
Basically what you have is this: The upscaling hardware is doing a couple of things. First, deinterlacing the picture so that it can be processed. Second, using filters and algorithms to add lines and pixels so that the video signal sent to the TV can matches its desired HD resolution. If it did not do this you'd have a smaller image displayed on the screen surrounded by black borders. Basically it is enlarging the image and filling in the gaps with pixels/lines that it deems will properly match the already existing info being displayed, so there wont be any gaps in the image when it is enlarged.
Said advanced algorithms extensively analyze the signal/image being fed into it and then uses interpolation to create said extra pixels/lines. Again, you can't add extra detail that was never there. Outside of the end product being displayed being a little cleaner with less shimmer, all in all, its still just going to look like a cleaned up 256x240 Nes image (looking emulated at that from what the HI-Def Nes vids on youtube look like).
That is all there is to it. The benefit is you are making your system fully compatible on a 720p or 1080p screen, either cropped for proper 4:3, or forced to a widescreen aspect ratio because you're a noob that doesn't know anything about proper aspect ratios on old games. You might get a slightly clearer image compared to the composite out, depending on how well your LCD handles composite in, and reduced shimmer during screen movement. You may get some slightly brighter colors too, maybe. Depends on the hardware and the quality of the color pallets the kit is using.
But in the end, the actual Nes games will still not be in Hi-Definition. Rygar is not suddenly going to have defined hair detail and decked out abs. You are not going to suddenly see fine blots of mold growing on blocks in the dungeons on The Legend of Zelda.
As for the sound. The sound is not really Hi-Definition either. Its hardware emulating older hardware that wasn't even of 16-bit sound quality @ 44.1 kHz mono or stereo. Sure the slight warm fuzz is missing, because the sound is cleaner, but its still not going to sound overly enhanced from the original. It can fake stereo, and it can emulate added chips, and get rid of the extremely minor noise/interference that was originally in the audio, the kind that only super human ears can usually detect.
Voice samples on games will not sudden sound like cd or dvd quality recorded samples being played back though. The bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds will still sound like bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds, though via emulation it may sound crisper/cleaner, but less warm and with less umph, sounding a tad fake.
But outside of that, its still going to sound like Nes. And I suspect it wont even sound as exact, due to emulation, and that is a deal killer for me. Emulation never sounds exactly like the original. They can get pretty close, but never exact. I don't care about overclocking Nes hardware, so having emulated sound is not a needed feature for someone like me.
For that matter, said noise/interference can be eliminated via good sound equipment and shielded cables. You don't need this kit to do that. What would have been cool would have been in addition a stripped down kit being offered that just focused on the visual side of things, so that an even cheaper kit could be sold.
As for fake stereo on Nes. I dont like it. Its not legit. Those sounds were never meant to be separated, and having clocked in thousands of hours of game time on the Nes, most of the time it just sounds odd hearing that fake stereo stuff.
As for the auction starting bid amount, it was irrelevant. It was a starting bid, not a BIN or the end bid amount. GT and Kev are not naive enough to have assumed it would have just only got one bid per system. A reasonable BIN price like $325-375 could have been set so the systems could have gone at a affordable rate and they could have made a reasonable profit still.
They knew though that a limited supply being posted via auction would attract high bids. Given there seems to be no set time frame for the release of the kits, the going rates for modded systems can be abused for however long that general unavailability of the kits last, as long as they don't overly flood the ebay market with system listings. Basically they are in a position to take advantage of Nes collector impatience, and they know it. The auctions will continue as long as they deem them necessary for high profits.
What is going to happen though is people not willing or able to afford to win another deck at such a high price will eventually get tired of waiting and jump on a cheaper solution. So if the idea of selling kits, instead of modded systems, is the end plan, then GT and Kev are shooting theirselves in the foot on the long term. Customers who got tired of waiting and went off and got NESRGB kits installed are not suddenly going to rip said kits out and buy HI-Def kits to replace them. The longer a normal kit launch is prolonged in favor of cash grab auctions, the worse the situation will be for the kits when it is time to sell them on their own.
And the other thing. People who won these modded systems paid way more then their worth. Nintendo collectors tend to not have very good gauges of what is worth what, similar to how some Neo collectors tend to be. So what you are going to end up with is a lot of people having the same mentality of KPJ/Neotropolis customers who try to resell his warez.
Customers like those of KPJ really think their consolized MVS 1-Slots in Pactec shells and AES systems are worth the $600-700 bucks they paid. When they end up with buyers remorse and try to resell these Game-Tech modded Nes decks and try to recoup their losses, whats going to happen is you're going to have systems sitting in sales threads and auction listings posted as "OMG RARE HDMI NES OMG f*ckIN RAREZ $700", sitting there and not selling because there is always going to be some slightly cheaper solution for sale somewhere. Said people are going to be made fun of, just like Neotropolis customers.
The initial buyers are going to end up jaded when they realized they over paid by about $300-400 on this regret buy, because their power to dictate the going rate has slowly been taken away from them. And in addition that there is $300-400 they will never ever get back, because GT and Kev kept slowly flooding the ebay market with auctions over time making their "OMG RARE $700 HDMI NES" not so rare, making the going rate eventually drop to $600, then $500, then $400, then $350, until finally Kev and Gt see that the auctions are no longer worth holding and it is now ideal to just sell the kits and be done with it.
And to Kev and GT, bad news for you in case you were not aware. Paypal has extended their customer claim/return policy to 180 days. So if one of your auctioned systems stops working, the customer can get the funds freezed in your account on a return process and force a return if you do not do right by them. They don't have to use ebay for the return. Paypal will still have its own return process for them.
So again, a 6 month free service warranty would be ideal, as opposed to having to refund a few early $700 winning bidders whose systems might have gone bad between now and 6 months into the future. You wont be able to worm out of any Paypal claim by using the "Custom-made items" clause, because you sold a manufactured product, being the Nintendo manufactured Nes, with a added manufactured computer board. That clause only applies to things like custom made dolls, jewelry, crafts, etc.
As for the other mess, just meh, whatever. Still waiting for those sound comparison videos that will probably never be made. From a technical point of view I would love to see them, but as is it seems like Kevtris is reluctant or afraid to do them, similar to how him and GT seem reluctant or afraid to offer 6 month extended warranties on the auctioned systems. There is no way they spent 30-40 hours per each individual system testing it to make sure it and their launch batch of pcbs was rock solid.
They didn't do extensive industrial vibration test to make sure connections wouldn't be lost during shipping the systems, or that stress creep would not eventually occur (which to me would be an ideal test to perform given socketed chips seem to be involved). Nor did they do extended elevated-temperature fatigue test on these auctioned systems. I mean I can only assume that the kits add to the internal operating temperature of the systems.
Given the time frame from when they posted they received them, it just is not possible that responsible testing of the systems had occurred prior to auction. I don't like seeing people being used as high paying guinea pigs, but that is basically what this launch amounts to. So seriously, shame on you. SHAME. ON. YOU.
also, lol, streaming. the last thing I personally consider with gaming is how well I can share the experience with dickheads on the internet. I'd rather play games than watch them be played online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji9KmXwrA5Y
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: esteban on September 02, 2015, 03:42:51 PM
I was going to post this before, but it probably is even more relevant now:
Buyers still don't have any pledge/warranty for the first few batches...
Forgive me, but I didn't see Kev or GT directly address this.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: DarkKobold on September 03, 2015, 03:06:43 PM
I was going to post this before, but it probably is even more relevant now:
Buyers still don't have any pledge/warranty for the first few batches...
Forgive me, but I didn't see Kev or GT directly address this.
In general, if its a kit, people don't offer warranties. (Fully made systems is a different story). Its not really the seller's fault if the buyer is too incompetent with a soldering iron to correctly install it. I've personally never seen any sort of self-install kit come with a warranty.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Necromancer on September 04, 2015, 03:44:19 AM
Based on what everyone else was saying regarding warranties, I'm guessing esteban meant a warranty for the pre-modded systems sold on ebay.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Black Tiger on September 04, 2015, 04:11:56 AM
Based on what everyone else was saying regarding warranties, I'm guessing esteban meant a warranty for the pre-modded systems sold on ebay.
When the seller is the designer, manufacturer, installer and marketing team for the product and personally refurbs the included console, I think that it is much different than when a random person buys someone else's kit and installs it themself.
I believe that most people buying these modded consoles are assuming that the famous seller who has hyped this product for a long time and posts his youtube vids and 5 star reviews in the description, will take care of any and all technical issue for quite a while. Like at least a year.
An official disclaimer of a specific warranty period would go a long way to curbing a wave of unhappy fans/customers should anything go wrong. The types of people jumping on this first wave of preinstalled kits aren't going to notice the 14 day return policy and the few that do will assume that it means that they can return it no questions asked if they have buyers remorse and drop it in a mail box within 14 days after they physically receive it.
I'm not emotionally invested in this discussion or the product, but it seems like it's in the best interest of the hi-def nes team to advertise an official warranty as loud and proudly across the internet as they have been spamming their product and services for so long.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on September 07, 2015, 05:39:17 AM
There was a vrc7 mapper released for the NES Everdrive. This means Lagrange Point can be played! I had some trouble getting a couple of the roms to work, english translation worked 2 times and not once since... The hi-def nes kit shines here as it's the only way to get the expansion audio to work since the kit generates it internally, no need for the exp audio part of the mapper pack to work, which currently does not. It was also my first attempt at audio capture via line out or headphone jack of the projector and tv, neither work very well. Can anybody recommend a good hdmi 1080p capture card? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wWs2j2S0Q
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: ProfessorProfessorson on September 07, 2015, 08:53:11 AM
Warranties on the auctioned systems, and sound comparisons. Continuing to just spam post while ignoring those two things just looks bad. You do yourself more harm then good by making it obvious you chose to ignore us and opted to continue on with spamming the forum.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on September 27, 2015, 03:38:35 AM
Quote from: blizzz
From Twitter: @krikzz 1 minute ago #EverDrive N8 OS v13. Now compatible with NES HDMI adapter! krikzz.com/forum/index.ph... (http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=3458.new#new)
Excellent! Thanks for the update, will spread the word!
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SephirothTNH on September 27, 2015, 04:10:26 AM
Excellent news! Any idea on when kits will be available?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on September 27, 2015, 04:12:47 AM
I think Kevin is more focused on firmware/compatibility updates than ordering kits, but I know he was close to done with both just haven't heard either way from him.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: SephirothTNH on September 27, 2015, 04:16:30 AM
That's understandable. I'm still looking forward to buying one. I know it's kind of a novelty but I really want an HDMI Frontloader hooked up the the main tv.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on October 29, 2015, 01:10:45 PM
Kevtris posted an update to the hi-def's firmware, only 30-40 consoles are out there right now so this mostly just applies to them:
Weeeelllll, here it is. I received the everdrive yesterday and loaded V12? firmware onto it (the version before the "fix" for the HDMI adapter). Thinking this was going to be a "worst case" test. It worked perfectly with the games I tested- I tested about 6 or 7 different mappers and all is well. Reset even worked properly. Before, the error messages wouldn't show up properly but they do now (i.e. no SD card).
FDS is working properly now, and so do MMC5 games (i.e. reset works there too, and no need to use a game genie). I sent it out to a couple people and they could apply it properly, though one person has problems.
He was using a powerpak, and his MMC3 file was different than mine- I think he has the savestate mappers. This caused the update to not work. It reported a data corrupt error and refused to flash the firmware. I gave him my mapper 4 file direct off the CF card on my powerpak and then he got it to work properly.
I don't know anything about the save state mapper, but I assume it cannot load 512K PRG ROMs, because it uses some of the RAM for the savestate part? I could be totally wrong but that's just my first guess.
It works on some everdrives, but some people had issues.
To use it, load this ROM on a flash cart (or burn EPROMs? hehe), run it and then get into the Hi Def menu, select "save and update", then "update firmware", and follow the on screen prompts. It will check the update for integrity, and then flash it if it passes the check. Cycle power and it will use the new firmware.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on April 11, 2016, 03:25:38 AM
Kevtris posted an update video last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcB0olRfYM0
Biggest news is the next batch of kits has been ordered! There is also a small firmware update, v2.25. http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/HiDefNES%20Update%20V2.25%20final.nes (http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/HiDefNES Update V2.25 final.nes) This fixes a few games and interpolation.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on June 25, 2016, 02:45:22 AM
Hi-Def NES update - kits ready for sale Sunday July 3rd https://youtu.be/X0E8KzTt2i4
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on July 15, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Pre-oders sale page is live, has been all day and looks to be holding up no problems so far. https://www.game-tech.us/product/hi-def-nes/
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: KnightWarrior on July 18, 2016, 12:10:28 PM
How about Light Gun Games?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: crazydean on July 18, 2016, 12:17:54 PM
Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: KnightWarrior on July 18, 2016, 12:43:18 PM
More or less to stick with a RGB NES on a CRT
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Arkhan on March 07, 2017, 08:28:08 PM
I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high
You must not have been to any game conventions lately. Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.
I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.
120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$. I can see that happening. People are idiots.
That FPGA thread made me go skim this again.
HDMI modded NES sold for 400+$ using one of these mods. So, yeah. It's a thing.
Toploaders have hit around the 100$ mark too,so...
SmokeMonster is definitely an idiot?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: MobiusStripTech on March 09, 2017, 08:41:25 AM
Yep just sold my modded front loader and have seen a few more sell for the same price or higher.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on March 10, 2017, 01:58:54 AM
Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.
I keep hearing HD CRTs won't work when light guns. However maybe I should just try on my HD CRT and see for myself this weekend.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: crazydean on March 10, 2017, 02:33:24 AM
Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.
I keep hearing HD CRTs won't work when light guns. However maybe I should just try on my HD CRT and see for myself this weekend.
Let us know how that goes. I expect it to work but interested either way.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: MobiusStripTech on March 10, 2017, 02:33:52 AM
They don't. There is still a digital image processor and that's what hoses them. You can try it though since it won't hurt anything. It will activate, but you normally can't actually hit anything.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Game-Tech.US on March 10, 2017, 02:37:03 AM
Do those hd crt's have menu's and/or possibly a 'game mode' you can switch to? I'd also try turning off edid on the kit.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on March 10, 2017, 02:48:43 AM
Do those hd crt's have menu's and/or possibly a 'game mode' you can switch to? I'd also try turning off edid on the kit.
It has a channel that says game when I switch through various video channels.
My set has a HDMI input, S video inputs, and composition inputs. Also has a coaxial input. I want to say it was 5 cable inputs total not including the hdmi port. Granted I have been using the HD a retro vision cables for my SNES and Genises as well as the HDMI for my NES. Will have to use my non modded NES and regular composite to test the light gun. Might even test out the Saturn and light gun as well. As those are the only two systems I currently have light guns for.
Oh wait no. I have a gun con for the PS and PS2 I can try.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on March 10, 2017, 02:56:08 AM
I remember seeing a YouTube video of some guy who made some sort of adaptor for the zapper which allowed it to work on a LCD tv. Granted it's YouTube and could be fake.
However. Something. Tells me that might be the next big thing for the retro scene. We already have many people working and fine tuning ways to get best picture best sounds and to play 100% of a systems library on original hardware affordiably (ever drives). What's left? Light gun comparability. Making an adaptor or light gun which would work with original hard ware on modern tvs.
Granted it might be impossible. Then again people said it was unlikely and possibly impossible to get a Neo Geo everdrive. And that became reality.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: MobiusStripTech on March 10, 2017, 04:33:29 AM
The youtube video is real. There is a way to build an adapter to get them working, but I have heard that it's not perfect and I think the tv's it worked on were specific.
If you get the zapper working on your HD CRT, post up the model. I know a few people who would be interested in trying to find an HD CRT that will actually work with a zapper, myself included.
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: crazydean on March 10, 2017, 06:24:59 AM
On this HD CRT, is the screen 4:3?
Title: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
Post by: Medic_wheat on March 10, 2017, 06:43:12 AM