Author Topic: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards & Cases Now for Sale!!!!  (Read 4271 times)

NightWolve

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #180 on: May 16, 2016, 02:06:00 PM »
+1 Shubi

What's the difference betwen the Turbokon - which mean "very very dumb in french", funny coincidence? - 's Magical Chase and the PCE Memories Dracula X? None.

So we have to consider both the same way.
Already answered numerous times here and by many others! The list would go something like this:

* Slapping fan work on his pressings without permission/inclusion.
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.0

* "Tobias [PCEWorks] and the making of 'Sapphire-Gate...'"
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.msg432658#msg432658

* "Hating Tobias but loving Turbokon? HEY, DURRR, I SMELL HYPOCRISY!!! NOW YOU HAVE TO LEAVE TOBIAS ALONE, WE CAN OPENLY LOVE PCEWORKS STUFF HERE!!!111 YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!"
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20919.msg456014#msg456014

To claim "none" is to falsely distort/miscast opposition/hate to Tobias as a person, his history, versus opposition/hate to bootlegs/repros in general. It's childish and dishonest. Just because you like Tobias' repros and you have a grudge with everybody that hates him, it doesn't mean you get to exploit turbokon to somehow provide cover against future criticism of Tobias by making false/blind comparisons...

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #181 on: May 16, 2016, 02:09:23 PM »
+1 Shubi

What's the difference betwen the Turbokon - which mean "very very dumb in french", funny coincidence? - 's Magical Chase and the PCE Memories Dracula X? None.

So we have to consider both the same way.

Do you get all of your info from youtube?
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turbokon

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Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #182 on: May 16, 2016, 02:58:18 PM »
+1 Shubi

What's the difference betwen the Turbokon - which mean "very very dumb in french", funny coincidence? - 's Magical Chase and the PCE Memories Dracula X? None.

So we have to consider both the same way.

Correction when it's written as "turbo con" means "very very dumb".
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 05:24:42 PM by turbokon »
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turbokon

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #183 on: May 16, 2016, 03:07:39 PM »
+1 Shubi

What's the difference betwen the Turbokon - which mean "very very dumb in french", funny coincidence? - 's Magical Chase and the PCE Memories Dracula X? None.

So we have to consider both the same way.
Already answered numerous times here and by many others! The list would go something like this:

* Slapping fan work on his pressings without permission/inclusion.
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.0

* "Tobias [PCEWorks] and the making of 'Sapphire-Gate...'"
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.msg432658#msg432658

* "Hating Tobias but loving Turbokon? HEY, DURRR, I SMELL HYPOCRISY!!! NOW YOU HAVE TO LEAVE TOBIAS ALONE, WE CAN OPENLY LOVE PCEWORKS STUFF HERE!!!111 YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!"
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20919.msg456014#msg456014

To claim "none" is to falsely distort/miscast opposition/hate to Tobias as a person, his history, versus opposition/hate to bootlegs/repros in general. It's childish and dishonest. Just because you like Tobias' repros and you have a grudge with everybody that hates him, it doesn't mean you get to exploit turbokon to somehow provide cover against future criticism of Tobias by making false/blind comparisons...

Didn't know there is a whole separate post.  Thanks for sharing.
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Zero_Gamer

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #184 on: May 16, 2016, 03:17:42 PM »
Can we just accept piracy for what it is and leave folks alone? Its just like any other business, the market will determine proper prices and shit.

shubibiman

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #185 on: May 16, 2016, 07:06:49 PM »
Zero_gamer> can we just accept piracy for what it is ? You mean : an illegal activity ? It's not just a normalbusiness.

Nightwolve > thanks for the links. I perfectly know what Tobias did and I'm not defending him if you ever thought that was the case.

My thoughts about piracy have always been consistant since 2005 : it does a lot of harm to video game fans. Whether you intentionnally flood the market with bootlegs or not, on ebay or on other marketplaces, it will always end up with the same result. We of course all agree that Tobias is the king of f*cktards.

The truth is, there's already a f*cktard that's trying to sell a Magical Chase repro for 1500$. Will he ever sell it ? I don't think so, but the harm is already done. Even if you produce dozens, hundreds or thousands of it, it will f*ck up the market just as the Sapphire bootlegs did. And there's a lot of them ! Still, some of them sell for 100$ or more. There's nothing we can do about that, except NOT producing more bootlegs.

Well, after all I guess that customers should just be clever enough to make out what's an original copy or not.

It will be my last comment on this story as I feel I'm repeating myself.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 07:21:31 PM by shubibiman »
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mickcris

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #186 on: May 16, 2016, 07:20:33 PM »
deleting this crap post. sorry
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 02:01:16 AM by mickcris »

turbokon

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #187 on: May 17, 2016, 03:49:29 AM »
Well we appreciated the mostly great response from the community.  For you others, I'm sorry you feel like that.  It is what it is and don't worry, I won't be losing sleep over it.

We got into this to make games like magical chase more affordable to masses. Most people appreciate what we're doing and that we thank you.
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NightWolve

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #188 on: May 17, 2016, 05:40:26 AM »
Would prefer to have been left out of this but I don't appreciate being mocked by you. You are just mad that Tobias stole your work.  You seem to feel it's OK to steal and sell other people's work as long as it's not yours.

I have no love for Tobias, his repros, or any repros and yes some of you are hypocrites.  Smoke monster got torn a new one for including roms on some Everdrives he was selling which is similar to this.
Too bad! You earned the mocking, so that's tough! You decided to enter this debate by exploiting support for turbokon/Steve versus hate of Tobias to levy a shoddy hypocrisy criticism (which you did again in this post) that reduces/removes history/context/nuisances. It's an unjust simplification so you and others can pretend you have valid/fair comparisons. You don't get to tell people in the future to conveniently leave you out when you make stupid comments on here in other threads!

Now you wanna cry for and are butthurt about SmokeMonster (keeping tabs on who gets roasted here?), who got "torn a new one" NOT for what you say, but deliberate omission of information in his eBay listing which led to a $359 purchase by someone for something he could've bought for $79 plus $11-$20 in plastic. The fact that he threw in the ROM collection to up the value is totally a side related issue (I didn't care about that, take that up with those that did!), so pretending that was somehow the main reason he was criticized is a damn lie! That was wholly about getting ripped off, imagine later finding out you could buy TE from krik at $79, the ROM collection had little to do with it and I didn't even notice that till others did!

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19095.msg415410#msg415410

Quote: "SmokeMonster is a predator of low-information big-spending fools and I also don't get why he wasted Tucci's time on the buddy deal for one flashcart from our group buy..."

That was classic reseller scamming relying on buyers [ignorance] not knowing the distributor (krik in this case) or wherever the source products were purchased from. I don't like to see it, and I stand by every damn word I wrote about him/the situation! The fact that you would try to defend him again in light of this says a lot about where you're coming from!

So once again, mickris, and these other guys here with grudges on our reseller criticism and whatever else is the source of their grudge, practice deliberate misinformation/simplification to make false comparisons at every turn to score points!

Quote
You are just mad that Tobias stole your work.  You seem to feel it's OK to steal and sell other people's work as long as it's not yours.
"RAWR, I got you! You see, I'm smart!!! Durrrrrr!" Once again, a simplistic, false reduction, a lie basically and self-neutralizing hypocrisy.

The situations are not as simplistic as you'd like them to be for the purposes of your argument.

1) Getting permission from the videogame developers/publishers equals a $10k-$15k license fee, the need for a Japanese/English translator to make the deal, and so it's likely never going to happen for the common Joe Schmoe Tobias, not without Kickstarter projects and the like (and it'd have to be a really good game for that to succeed)... Bootlegs would never happen if everyone believed you must get that paid license before doing so. That's assuming you could even reach the right people in the company!

2) There's technical legality, and then the morality of it. As bootlegs usually deal with abandonware games, the developers/publishers will have sold out of all/most copies, everybody already got paid, the programmers, the publishers, etc. They made most/all of the money they're ever going to make for the now defunct/orphaned console platform. So, what is the level of moral harm for unlicensed reprints of manuals, games, etc. for abandoned consoles when they can be downloaded every day for free on the Internet right now ?? Very little to none. And that rationale is why bootlegs are made and why a Tobias doesn't bootleg a new PS4 game or what you have.

3) The difference between me, or any other fan translation team is, I/we didn't get paid for anything, I wouldn't demand a $10-$15k license fee for a reprint, you don't need a Japanese/English translator to talk business with me, my email has always been available so YOU COULD reasonably contact me before taking my work and slapping it on your reprint for your bootleg business... Not that I'd be willingly on board in Tobias' case given Sapphire-Gate, him being a lying fraudster, etc.

So yes, you essentially compare the mostly impossible, getting a license from the Japanese company, versus the possible, getting permission from the fan translation team as an excuse for Tobias and other bootleggers to not bother getting permission from ANYBODY (hey, just don't bother!) so he can get to pocket 100% of the net earnings! He appreciates your argument BTW, the "just f--k it" aspect of it... And nothing original about it, you and other crybabies who feel guilty use this argument to defend the slapping of fan work on reprints, I've heard/seen it before on the Facebook groups.

4) You're your own self-neutralizing hypocrite if you ever downloaded music/games/movies/software, and you seem to feel it's OK to steal other people's work, as long as it's not yours and as long as it's stolen for free and not resold in plastic... That is, unless you wanna lie, here and now, and claim that your hands are clean, and that you've never downloaded anything illegal/unlicensed, ROMs or whatever, etc... You might as well add more lying to your record, you already have, chief!

5) Of course I'm gonna have more of a connection to my own work, my usage terms violated, as opposed to some far off company in Japan that SOLD OUT copies of the games in question and no longer deals with or cares about the defunct console platform they were made for... They have bigger concerns, if at all, and that is the pirating networks which distribute the games by the millions daily, and 500 new pieces of plastic doesn't come close to be worth caring about when you can't shutdown the daily pirating!

Anyway, it's not even about protecting the company's "potential" reprinting and reprofitting on retro games for you [which is not going to happen], what you want is just to childishly neutralize reseller critics here via an overplayed and shoddy hypocrisy angle given your grudge... I'm not really buying your denials about Tobias either, which are done for the sake of credibility in your argument...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 11:23:35 AM by NightWolve »

mickcris

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #189 on: May 17, 2016, 06:36:37 AM »
deleting this crap post. sorry
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 02:01:30 AM by mickcris »

shubibiman

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2016, 07:11:54 AM »
We got into this to make games like magical chase more affordable to masses.

Masses can play Magical Chase thanks to emulation for free anyway, so you're not some kind of Robinhood.
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turbokon

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2016, 07:28:19 AM »
We got into this to make games like magical chase more affordable to masses.

Masses can play Magical Chase thanks to emulation for free anyway, so you're not some kind of Robinhood.

Emulation, everdrive, blah blah, heard it all before.  There are multiple ways for people to enjoy retro gamings.  It all depends on people preference....  I myself prefer playing on real hardwares and myself own several everdrives.    The everdrive while great doesn't quite replicate the feeling of the originals as well as our repro hucards.  Like most people, I prefer the originals if I could afford them.  And btw, thanks for polluting our sales thread with your runt.
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NightWolve

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2016, 07:30:55 AM »
you think this is ok while others see it differently.  You are not going to change my mind and im not going to change yours.

Sounds hardheaded.

Quote
Its just surprising having had your stuff taken and sold that you feel the way you do when it happens to other people.  You seem to think you are some kind of authority on whats ok to bootleg and what isn't.

I don't "seem" to think I'm some kind of "authority" (I could selectively say the same about you!) - I'm just me, and I explained the rationale/thinking on why the letter of the law is not followed when it comes to bootlegs. I also explained the differences/nuisances, in one case, it's practically impossible to get the permission from the Japanese company, but for a fan team, it's perfectly possible to do so... If you just glossed over the explanation, you care more about your grudge and continuing with a shoddy hypocrisy angle pretending the cases are an exact match morally. Or maybe it's just too much logic for you and went right over your head...

I'm naturally gonna have more of a connection to my own work, and speak out about it when it gets appropriated by a lying fraudster, as opposed to raging about piracy/bootlegs in general which is akin to pissing in the wind and would only make me hated across the Internet (I did, in fact, and AM hated for it)! If you wish to prove moral harm with unlicensed reprints of abandonware games, go ahead, try, but you didn't (and there's a reason why), you just went right back to a childish hypocrisy angle, which is all you're apparently good for.

Quote
Like i said in the other thread, I dont really care that much about  this but dont act like this is different than the PCE works CDs or someokemonster selling roms on an everdrive as its the same (just that was a better deal as these are just one or 2 roms on a cart).  I am not talking about the discs he tried to pawn off as real either, im just talking about the new pce works ones.  I dont have a grudge against anyone, just pointing out hypocrisy.  You seem to have lots of excuses as to why some things are ok and some are not.

You do care, but you don't care, you do care, but you don't care... Which is it ?

And you continue to be providing excuses as to why all of these people should be thought of almost exactly the same, once again! They're not! Try to wrap your brain around that instead of simplifying these cases for your shoddy hypocrisy angle which DOES have motivation in some form of grudge.

Notice, once again, even after I went to the trouble of pointing out his lying about SmokeMonster, he repeated his historical revisionism. SmokeMonster threw in the ROM collection (an afterthought!), yes, to up the value, but the fundamental criticism had nothing to do with that when it came to his auction. The TurboEverdrive can be bought for $79, the plastic, $11-$20, the ROM collection, downloaded for free, and a low-information big-spender was exploited for $359 given SmokeMonster's deliberate omissions in the listing! The overall source of anger was the ripoff, not the friggin' ROM collection!

mickcris is trying to revise the facts of what the anger was mainly about in order to force that case to fit his narrative.

Quote
I have downloaded free things before as im sure most have.  like most others, I do not try to sell it to other people though for a profit. 

Right, so you had your own hypocrisy problems as pointed out. But it's OK to step outside of that to make hypocritical points now and then, right ?

Quote
You had to come white knighting and call me out in here though.

One sentence of mocking, but of course you couldn't take it, and the only one that came in here white-knighting is you on SmokeMonster's behalf. He really wasn't worth it... You seem to keep tabs on resellers who got roasted on here for whatever reasons, then look for opportunities to throw it back in our face given the grudge you DO have, but say that you don't...

P.S. It's pretty warped he claims SmokeMonster's $359 TurboEverdrive with ROM collection was a "better deal" against turbokon's 1-game HuCards at $45, because the whole ROM collection was included (which you can download for free and normally buy the TE at $79!)! Amazing! It goes without saying the TurboEverdrive at $79 will ALWAYS be a better deal than individual unlicensed reprints of single games, duh! Some people actually want them, even with the existence of the TE. But exploiting this to score some defensive points for what SmokeMonster did is a joke!

Is SmokeMonster a buddy of his by chance ? Are there still other SmokeMonster partisans who feel he was "unjustly persecuted" for that auction I wonder ?? :lol: How about instead feeling pity for the dumb sucker who dropped $359 ? He's gotta live with that for the rest of his life from the day he runs into the retrogate shop...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 12:33:33 PM by NightWolve »

mickcris

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #193 on: May 17, 2016, 08:00:38 AM »
deleting this crap post. sorry
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 02:01:46 AM by mickcris »

NightWolve

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Re: Turbografx-16 & PC-Engine Reproduction Hucards Now for Sale!!!!
« Reply #194 on: May 17, 2016, 08:23:53 AM »
FYI, world doesn't revolve around what you were or weren't done with. Any comments made here in the past can be referred to in the present.

You are objectively white-knighting on SmokeMonster's behalf. And given the ROMs can be downloaded for free, the TE purchased directly STILL from the maker for $79, the plastic for $11-$20, it was exploitation of the ignorance of a low-information big-spender made possible by SmokeMonster's deliberate omissions in the eBay listing. As such, yes, it was an objective rip-off, that the buyer was willing to drop as much as $359 is only because of his/her ignorance having been preyed upon and it's sad to see.

If the TE was out-of-print, and crazed eBay reselling took over, THEN you could give us the ole speech about what something's worth is whatever somebody's willing to pay for it, supply/demand/etc., but not when you can still buy everything direct from the maker at a suggested retail price and get the rest for free!

The TE is also an unlicensed product BTW, thus it's technically illegal and should not exist unless krik was willing to contact NEC with a Japanese/English translator to obtain legal permission, etc. But I'm guessing you seem to think that's OK...